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Thread: Alberta Separatism is starting to go mainstream

  1. #281
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    Albout? Albye?
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

  2. #282
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    Personally I think the Queen should remove all "British" designations. Our neighbor to the west might be more suitable to label as "New Columbia". I mean it did absolute wonders when they called the east side of the continent "New York".

    That's my suggestion anyhow - "New Columbia." Makes it sound fresh and minty. Not that I have the sort of power to rename provinces *cough*.
    Cocoa $11,000 per tonne.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenOps View Post
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    Personally I think the Queen should remove all "British" designations. Our neighbor to the west might be more suitable to label as "New Columbia". I mean it did absolute wonders when they called the east side of the continent "New York".

    That's my suggestion anyhow - "New Columbia." Makes it sound fresh and minty. Not that I have the sort of power to rename provinces *cough*.
    Never happen. Even to the point where the Conservatives brought back all the "Royal" designations for the military. Air Command is the RCAF again; Maritime Command is the RCN again.

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidI View Post
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    We need a better name than Albexit.

    I think Albleavin' would be good.
    Sung to the tune of the Journey song? "Don't stop Albleavin'!".
    Originally posted by SJW
    Once again another useless post by JRSCOOLDUDE.
    Originally posted by snowcat
    Don't let the e-thugs and faggots get to you when they quote your posts and write stupid shit.
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    I say stupid shit all the time.
    ^^ Fact Checked

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRSC00LUDE View Post
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    Sung to the tune of the Journey song? "Don't stop Albleavin'!".
    Why you gotta do that man, now this will be stuck in my head for the rest of the day.

  6. #286
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    Well which is it, Quebec? Albeit 2,000 people is hardly representative.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...nada-1.4952579
    Ultracrepidarian

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjblair View Post
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    Why you gotta do that man, now this will be stuck in my head for the rest of the day.
    Because I am a dick, is this your first day?!
    Originally posted by SJW
    Once again another useless post by JRSCOOLDUDE.
    Originally posted by snowcat
    Don't let the e-thugs and faggots get to you when they quote your posts and write stupid shit.
    Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
    I say stupid shit all the time.
    ^^ Fact Checked

  8. #288
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    Dare to live the other dream.
    Cocoa $11,000 per tonne.

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  10. #290
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    Even after separating, Alberta/Sask/BC could be the Royal Provinces of her Majesty/etc....leaving Ottawa doesn't necessarily mean Western former Canadians couldn't have a relationship of some kind with the monarchy in the UK still IMO.

    650 truckers took their vehicles through Estavan in Sask yesterday protesting in a similar manner to those in AB. It's spreading, have to see after the holidays if this whole thing has any momentum. People aren't just angry, they are getting scared, especially about their finances and future. Fear has always been the best and fastest motivator, so we'll see.

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    Read an article this morning suggesting the equalization referendum should happen at the same time as when we vote for the provincial election

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    As a foreign country like say - South Korea, if Alberta separated it would be on my list for invasion. Because Asians know that the USA doesn't have the strength of will like they do in the movies. Putin would definitely give it a shot. I mean he basically just drove tanks into Crimea and they handed him the keys on the first day.

    I mean the USA went around the globe to clash swords with everyone. Nearly everyone has the ability to travel around the world to plunder if they are given reason to. Would the USA see it as an opportunity to simply take over Alberta by military force so that they don't have to share any profits from natural resources at all? I'd say very high probability.

    I'm pretty sure Alberta would not get the one working submarine that Canada has.
    Last edited by ZenOps; 12-23-2018 at 04:10 PM.
    Cocoa $11,000 per tonne.

  13. #293
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    But how will we defend our oceans

  14. #294
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    We also don't get a nuke of the no nukes Canada has. We might be able to get a handful of F-?? fighters that can travel about 1/3 rd the distance of Canada before running out of fuel.

    USA invading Alberta instead of co-operating and paying proper and good value is pretty much already happening. The USA has invaded over half the countries of the world in its very short history of existing. To not point guns at a newly separated Alberta, and demand free oil - almost seems unamerican.

    If Alberta were to claim complete sovereignty, a severing from the British Crown, then anyone who currently owns land in Alberta that was divided by the Queen would probably be considered null and void, in addition to the tax structure of it. The original owners of the landmass of Alberta "technically" on a "first here" basis, were the natives - And reallocation of assets would probably fall on the natives, and not a bunch of white people. Although arguably, the farmers here would simply point guns at the natives and demand that we use their land for free.

    Last edited by ZenOps; 12-23-2018 at 04:40 PM.
    Cocoa $11,000 per tonne.

  15. #295
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    Who knows, maybe in a decade the USA might try a 70% tax rate. They have to fund Hawaiian equalization payments afterall (significantly higher than equalization in Canada) So anyone still want to join the USA?

    Just an example of how leadership changes year on year.
    Cocoa $11,000 per tonne.

  16. #296
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    Good summary

    https://zeihan.com/albertas-tryst-with-destiny/

    By Peter Zeihan and Michael N. Nayebi-Oskoui

    Local politics, even at the national level, are rarely a focus for students of geopolitics. Personalities play too big a role in the mishmash while local outcomes often play too small a role globally. Local affairs take up an outsized amount of oxygen in terms of local media coverage and public opinion, yet things usually keep chugging along, be the results good, bad or indifferent.

    The key word there being “usually”.

    The Canadian province of Alberta held elections yesterday (April 16) that have been on our radar for three years, and the implications of their results are anything but usual.

    Alberta is a quirky place. Strong economic growth, a robust energy sector, and center-right political leanings have defined Albertan politics in recent decades—trends broadly disconnected from the reputation and reality of the rest of America’s northern neighbor.

    Within that disconnect lies the problem.

    Alberta has long been the Canadian province suffering from the largest “gap” between the monies it pays into national coffers compared to what it gets back in terms of federal spending. The rest of Canada has shown its appreciation by consistently stymying the energy industry that forms the backbone of the Albertan economy with everything from carbon taxes to blocking transport routes for the landlocked province’s crude to reach foreign refineries. For the most part, the rest of Canada doesn’t even use Alberta’s crude themselves, deigning to invest in refineries capable of processing Alberta’s tar sands crude, opting instead for lighter, sweeter imports.

    If you think hamstringing a region’s economic growth while depending on its tax payments is a less-than-tenable long-term strategy, you’re not alone. While more people are aware of Quebec’s…independent streak, plenty within the Albertan political mainstream have had enough. And thanks to Quebec’s long-standing political wrangling to wrench itself free, any future Albertan separatist referendum would be perfectly legal.

    Which gets us to the current state of play. The province’s conservative-leaning voters staunchly backed the Progressive Conservative majority governments from 1971 to 2014, to the degree that after some elections there wasn’t even an opposition in the local legislature. But in 2015 in-fighting within the conservative house generated a political split. The Wildrose Party ran separate from the Progressive-Conservatives in the 2015 elections on a ticket of fiscal conservatism, healthcare reform and direct election of the province’s senators. The fissure split the conservative vote down the middle, enabling the New Democratic Party—a party that is most definitely not of the center-right—to seize control of the Albertan government for the first time.

    In a near textbook example of how geopolitics forms politics rather than the other way around, the NDP and premier Rachel Notley quickly went to work not only adopting many of its predecessor conservative government’s policies, but went to the mats with both Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and neighboring British Columbia over all things energy-related, most notably on pipelines. (Obviously, going to the mats here is relative. For a self-styled, Green/Leftist party to support oil sands in any measure is a big shift. Notley went so far as to embargo British Columbian products.)

    It was fun while it lasted. Just as a political spat among the center-right brought the NDP to power, a recent fracturing of the center-left in Alberta combined with a healing of the rift on the right has now escorted it out. While the counting continues, it appears a reunited Conservative-Wildrose alliance—operating under the banner of United Conservatives—now hold at least 62 seats in the 87 seat parliament according to Tuesday night’s provisional results. With victory cemented, many Albertans now look forward to a fundamental shift in the provinces’ fortunes.

    The awakening will be a rude one.

    The United Conservatives are running on public dissatisfaction against carbon taxes, a lack of pipelines, and an unequal system of taxation by a federal government many Albertans see as being not only out of touch and unhelpful but actively working against Albertan interests.

    Alberta’s new government will take the issue of a carbon tax to court.

    They will lose. Canada’s provinces lack the legal standing to challenge the central government on such topics, or more accurately, Ottawa has means of enforcement that bypass legal challenges.

    Alberta’s new government will sue to allow the Trans Mountain Pipeline to cross British Columbia and so enable Albertan Tar Sands to reach the Pacific.

    They will lose. Even if Alberta wins the case, BC will still find a means—with the unofficial blessing of a green-leaning central government—of preventing the pipe’s construction.

    Alberta’s new government will push back against the federal government’s heavy reach into Albertan coffers.

    They will lose. With Canada’s population aging into mass retirement, transfers from Alberta to the center will increase.

    Alberta’s new government will attempt to redefine the relationship between Edmonton and Ottawa in an effort to carve out more policy and financial autonomy.

    They will lose. Trudeau’s shiny, Instagram-able veneer aside, his ruling Liberal Party faces what is shaping up to be horrific national election in October. Collapsed positions vis-à-vis the Americans on trade has gutted Liberal support in Quebec, British Colombia has outflanked Trudeau to the left, Alberta’s Prairie Province neighbors have never been strong Liberal territory, and Ontario is slipping into a decidedly non-leftist populism. Trudeau needs Alberta’s tax dollars to hold Canada together, and any concessions to Alberta would immediately be demanded by other provinces. What Alberta is asking for is quite literally an end of Canada. Even if Trudeau wanted to give ground (and he does not), he absolutely cannot.

    Something’s gotta give.

    This Alberta Question has two possible outcomes.

    The first is an Albertan collapse.

    Economically, the province’s strength is resource extraction. Without a significant change in how Canada functions, the Albertans inability to bring their crude to market leaves them staring down an economic depression Greek in depth while also facing ever higher financial extractions from Ottawa. It is enough to hollow out Calgary on the scale of Detroit. As a government town, Edmonton wouldn’t do much better.

    Politically, Alberta’s United Conservatives face an impending litany of defeats on absolutely every issue that they say matter to them. Barring impossible shifts in Ottawa’s position, a repeat of the sort of infighting which brought the NDP to power in 2015 is all but guaranteed.

    All that needs to occur to guarantee the rudderless and hopeless outcomes of this option is that the Albertans continue to do what they’ve done for the past decade: hope things get better and hope what they say matters.

    Outcome Two requires a sharp break with convention, as it is nothing less than Albertan secession.

    The logic of Alberta leaving Canada is difficult to deny. If the rest of Canada remains hellbent on cramping the Albertans’ style, why not quit the Canada Show? Alberta isn’t dependent on the federal government’s financial handouts like other provinces. It has an energy sector, public infrastructure, educational system and workforce that has drawn plenty of international investment interest on its own. Negotiating export pipelines directly with the United States would be infinitely easier than with other Canadian governments, especially since the U.S. Gulf Coast is home to the only concentration of refineries in the world that can process Albertan heavy crudes. The money the Albertan government would save by not having to underwrite the rest of Canada would be gob-smacking.

    But just because secession solves a bunch of problems doesn’t mean the Albertans are chomping at the bit to make it happen. No one in the Albertan public space is using the “S” word just yet. None of the major parties campaigned on separation, either in 2015 or 2019, but that doesn’t mean that the topic isn’t about to dominate provincial political discussions.

    The United Conservatives now face a truly weird combination of factors: a complete lack of ability to get anything they want from within the Canadian system, and the utter ability to leave that system. It isn’t that anyone in power in Edmonton is agitating for independence, but it will become obvious very soon that discussions of and processes towards independence are the only thing Albertans are actually in charge of.

    We’ll save the implications of at-this-point-still-theoretical Albertan independence for another time. Even if the incoming Albertan government were dead-set on a secession referendum—and they are not—simply going through the motions to achieve that end will take a few months.

    But as a teaser consider that Alberta by itself is the world’s fifth-largest oil producer, Canada is the tenth-largest economy, and the bilateral American-Canadian bilateral trade relationship has been the world’s largest for the bulk of the past two generations. One way or another, all things Canadian are now firmly on our radar, reaching up to the level of importance of the Saudi-Iranian rivalry, the ongoing Japanese and Russian resurgences, and the pending European and Chinese disintegrations.

    For Canadians everywhere, that alone should be terrifying.

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    Negotiating export pipelines directly with the United States would be infinitely easier than with other Canadian governments, especially since the U.S. Gulf Coast is home to the only concentration of refineries in the world that can process Albertan heavy crudes.

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    Y'know I think Alberta is timed just about right for my lifetime. Another couple decades, Germany and China will have mostly moved away from Carbon, if just for the idea that they are mass production (factory) powerhouses that can pump out solar panels and neodymium wind generators faster than other nations. They still need the carbon as is - to produce the alternate forms of energy, but once that parity is hit, there will be no need for carbon.

    By then Carbon may be as obsolete as a dial up modem.

    That being said: Its not a bad idea to "sell before obsolescence". If the USA made a $2 to 10 Trillion offer for Alberta, I'd think it might be worth considering. The USA is definitely 50 years on carbon dependence, especially considering the massive money sunk into highways instead of rail. Highways than need carbon transport. No current or next generation USA platform seems to even be considering moving away from carbon.

    Separate willingly? You people are crazy. Noone buys the cow if they can get the milk for free, make them pay for separation. USA put a man on the moon and can print their own money with complete impunity. To ask and get $10 Trillion for Alberta is trivial.

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/petiti...nada-1.4306271
    Last edited by ZenOps; 05-30-2019 at 01:59 PM.
    Cocoa $11,000 per tonne.

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  20. #300
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    ^Jeez, you think that article's title is long enough?

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