2020 F1 and Coronavirus

[Buster]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-ve...en-90-win-w11/

‘90% of the field could win in that Mercedes’

[sexualbanana]

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https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-ve...en-90-win-w11/

I find it funny when teams and drivers downplay Hamilton and Bottas' dominance by saying it's because of the car. That's probably the easiest thing to equalize because teams can poach engineers and such from Mercedes, no?

[chongkee_]

90% of the drivers can win in that car but barely any of them would win with Hamilton in the other car.

[rage2]

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I find it funny when teams and drivers downplay Hamilton and Bottas' dominance by saying it's because of the car. That's probably the easiest thing to equalize because teams can poach engineers and such from Mercedes, no?

Well it depends on the team. Andy Cowell left Mercedes and Ferrari offered him a truckload of cash. He turned that shit down haha.

[Buster]

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I find it funny when teams and drivers downplay Hamilton and Bottas' dominance by saying it's because of the car. That's probably the easiest thing to equalize because teams can poach engineers and such from Mercedes, no?

But he's right I think.

It does come into play when talking about who is GOAT. Hamilton makes it into the top 5, but thats about it for me.

[2Legit2Quit]

Hamilton is the Tom Brady of F1 to me, extremely good/talented but a product of the system, not GOAT.

[shakalaka]

Hamilton for me is the GOAT hands down. Or at the very least ties with Schumacher for the top spot in my books.

[revelations]

Its more than just the car, what merc does really well is overall competence - and ferrari not for eg.

Two very different company cultures - Ferrari is way more hierarchical and advances within not necessarily on merit but more who you kiss butt to.

[ganesh]

To me Senna is the GOAT.

Lewis is right behind him. - It is funny when people start saying his success is just because he is at the right place at the right time.
You need to look at his whole career every where he has gone Lewis has won.

[Buster]

Schumacher senna and probably fangio are ahead of Lewis

[npham]

Comparing racers from different eras is so hard. I think the junior drivers of today would walk over most of the field back in the 80's/90's etc. The skill level is objectively higher now. Put Max in Fangio's car and vice versa, and I'd bet on Max all day long. Does that mean Max should be rated higher than Fangio? Also, every successful driver has had a winning car. Lewis went from a car that was winning to Mercedes, an unknown race car, and then proceeded to dominate for the next 7 years. Everyone thought he was fucking insane to make the jump, but now we are all complaining he's only winning because of Mercedes?

[chongkee_]

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Hamilton is the Tom Brady of F1 to me, extremely good/talented but a product of the system, not GOAT.

Product of the system that's 3-5 right now and barely won against the Jets?

[2Legit2Quit]

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Product of the system that's 3-5 right now and barely won against the Jets?

C'mon bruh, that window has passed. 4 super bowl appearances in 5 years, the current team is a shadow of its former self and players outside of Edelman have peaced out

[triplep]

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C'mon bruh, that window has passed. 4 super bowl appearances in 5 years, the current team is a shadow of its former self and players outside of Edelman have peaced out

Don't taint this thread with Barbaric American Football.

[revelations]

Turkish F1 = spin fest.

I predict a 5 car pileup in turn 1 on lap 1 of the race.

[rage2]

I waited till I had time to craft a response here. Having watched every single F1 race of Schumacher and Hamilton (so far), I think I have a decent sense of their driving abilities, compared to others in their era, and their shortcomings.

Disclaimer: I had a short stint as a MS fan. After Senna died, he was blitzing the entire field and I was in awe. Then Australia happened. Hated him since, and softened up on him since his return to Mercedes seeing him bested by everyone else. On the other hand, being a McLaren fan, I was a huge Hamilton fan till he abandoned McLaren. I was sad that he left, and I knew he'd do great things at Mercedes. I don't mind the dominance, he deserves it. With that said, I'll try to be as bias free as I can be.

First off is raw talent. I define that as someone that can get in the car, regardless if it was easy or hard to drive, just go fast in it. Both MS and LH has this natural ability to sense what the car is doing and manage it across all sorts of situations. Oversteering car in a high speed corner? No probs. Dive right in and catch it. That's how they're beating the competition, and why both are so good in the rain.

As racers, both had their share of mistakes. Both make stupid mistakes, and both are/were hot headed. MS had it bad and took really unnecessary risks. His goal was to dominate the opposition when he can and take every advantage he can get away with. 94 Aus. Jerez 97. Monaco qualifying 06. Dude was ruthless and DGAF. LH was the same way early in his career, and the year him and Massa kept crashing into each other was just WTF was he doing. The difference here is that Hamilton isn't a do anything to win. He's been praised for his clean wins. If it was MS in LH's position in Abu Dhabi 2016, he would've slowed down more and smashed Rosberg off the track and tried to win the race and championship haha. LH just did what he could, and lost it. And whined about it.

Competing against teammates, LH had a lot of talent driving beside him. He matched a 2 time WDC in his rookie year. MS was a contracted #1 driver with a contracted #2 driver. It made his life easy. LH had to work for it, well at least for the first 3 titles haha. Sure he lost in 2016, but unless you're a LH hater, it's hard to admit that LH wasn't the better driver that year. I guess it's a wash, because 08 was a hilarious WDC where everyone was shit haha.

The biggest thing about LH over MS tho, is that LH has been learning and getting better. You compare his early years in F1 and you see a really fast kid that's ruthless to pass, often taking unnecessary risks. No different than Schumacher. But look at him now, he's learnt to figure out how to win by managing tires better than everyone. He was known to destroy tires back then with his aggressive driving, and now he's still able to be patient, save tires, and attack with low risk. When he's battling for position, he'll look for ways out to ensure that if there is a clash, that he can get out with the minimal of damage. Look at all his collisions in the last 3 years, and that's why he's had such a long active points streak. Hamilton is a much better driver today than he was at the start of his career. A little more boring to watch, less aggression, but the same level of passing ability. MS on the other hand was pretty one dimensional. There wasn't much improvement in his driving because he didn't need to improve. There was no competition for him within the team. I guess there was a 2nd dimension, the Mercedes MS, who struggled against Rosberg and just wasn't fast. Granted, he started getting better.

So anyways, I can't say who's GOAT over the years, throw LH and MS in the same car at their early and mid careers, it's a toss up between them, and probably a lot of infighting Senna and Prost style. Put them in the tail end of MS first career and current LH, I have no doubt LH would be a better driver, but I would also think MS would have figured out how to adjust and improve just like LH. Over though, I'd certainly put LH over MS. End of the day, it's been great witnessing 2 of the potential GOATs entire career in real time. So the winner is me.

Thanks for reading.

[phreezee]

Wow, never thought I'd see a Stroll Pole. Love the rain.

[rage2]

2019 Mercedes > 2020 Mercedes.

First Canadian pole since Jerez 97.

[npham]

wow.

[davidI]

Dammit!!! I was going to be at that race until they banned fans.

Would have been amazing to see the first Canadian pole since Villeneuve.