Trudeau has to go?

[bjstare]

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I spent a decade managing over a billion USD in Contracts for a SOE (and prior to that a public company) covering everything a Government could do, including: catering, security/defense, aviation/airport, roads, power plants, electrical grids, IT hardware/software, satellite links, marine terminals, underwater welding, FEED/EPC, logistics, etc. Basically, everything a remote city could need. That included negotiating dozens of Consulting agreements and managing the consultants.

My biggest take away is that Consultants work best when managed very well by people who already have a good general understanding of what needs to be done and how much time/cost it should require.

If your argument is that the Government needs consultants to do tasks and has no idea what it's doing then it's basically a blank cheque signed by Canadian taxpayers.

I feel like you have a fundamentally different definition than I do of what a consultant is/does. I'm assuming because you used the term SOE that covers literally everything, your experience is somewhere over in the middle east (UAE?)... if that's the case, I shouldn't have to explain why that experience may not be a strong indicator of how things are done in North America. Even if my assumption is wrong, your "biggest takeaway" is an indicator that you don't really understand how the industry works. The best time to use a consultant is actually when a business doesn't entirely understand what needs to be done to get to a certain end outcome, how much something will cost, etc. That's like consulting 101

And yes, the government not knowing what it's doing and needing a blank cheque from taxpayers basically describes our current government in a nutshell.

[suntan]

Govts can't do anything anymore. So they hire other people to do those tasks. We get some work our way due to this. Gov't employees are inept and they can't be fired. This is also why the CoC and the Alberta gov't no longer hire FT. They always hire people on contract first, hoping that will make a difference in output. And if they do get hired FT, it won't be a union position if at all possible.

[davidI]

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I feel like you have a fundamentally different definition than I do of what a consultant is/does.

Nope, my experience is just different because I'm not a GoC moron so I effectively used and managed Consulting Services and I'm fully aware what happens when morons (e.g. GoC employees) do oversee such services.

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The best time to use a consultant is actually when a business doesn't entirely understand what needs to be done to get to a certain end outcome, how much something will cost, etc. That's like consulting 101

"a good general understanding of" ≠ "entirely understand"

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And yes, the government not knowing what it's doing and needing a blank cheque from taxpayers basically describes our current government in a nutshell.

Weird that you can admit this but still think the GoC spending millions on Consulting services is still a good idea.

[bjstare]

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I'm assuming because you used the term SOE that covers literally everything, your experience is somewhere over in the middle east (UAE?)...

So that’s a yes, then?

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Nope, my experience is just different because I'm not a GoC moron so I effectively used and managed Consulting Services and I'm fully aware what happens when morons (e.g. GoC employees) do oversee such services.

"a good general understanding of" ≠ "entirely understand"

Weird that you can admit this but still think the GoC spending millions on Consulting services is still a good idea.

We can certainly agree that morons hiring consultants doesn’t usually end well. In fact, companies rarely successfully leverage consultant recommendations/insights. That’s like one of the most frequently used jokes in consulting, it accounts for like 25% of the memes on consulting social media haha.

It’s not weird that I’m ok with the government hiring consultants, for a couple of reasons:

1. I’m a taxpayer. There’s a lower chance my money will be completely and utterly wasted if it gets spent on consulting services. I know for sure if the government is just left to it’s own devices to run without external help, the money might as well be set on fire.
2. I’m a consultant and my firm does work for the government. Even though I serve different industries (and would never want to be on a federal services engagement, fwiw), revenue from big government contracts means my business does well, and that means a better bonus for me.

Obviously, it would be better for everyone if the government could run without any consulting services, reduce their overhead, and thus reduce taxes. I pay a lot of tax and would love to pay less. If this meant the government never awarding a single consulting contract ever again, and reducing my tax burden, I would be all for that.

[davidI]

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So that’s a yes, then?

The location of the SOE was in the ME. The Consultants were from all-over, including Canada. It really doesn't make a difference though, even if you want it to.

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We can certainly agree that morons hiring consultants doesn’t usually end well. In fact, companies rarely successfully leverage consultant recommendations/insights. That’s like one of the most frequently used jokes in consulting, it accounts for like 25% of the memes on consulting social media haha.

Seems you're proving my point.

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I know for sure if the government is just left to it’s own devices to run without external help, the money might as well be set on fire.

I think it's more likely the money doesn't get spent at all (see point above). As far as I'm concerned, the less the Government tries to do, the better. Just not for you, as a Consultant.

[vengie]

TL: DR

If you have a vested interest in something you will be inclined to support that thing.
Ex. "It's always a good time to buy or sell" - Realtor.

[bjstare]

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TL: DR

If you have a vested interest in something you will be inclined to support that thing.
Ex. "It's always a good time to buy or sell" - Realtor.

Yup.

edit:

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I think it's more likely the money doesn't get spent at all (see point above). As far as I'm concerned, the less the Government tries to do, the better. Just not for you, as a Consultant.

I think the money will still get spent. Governments don't reduce taxes. If they stopped hiring consultants, the money would just get funneled to someone’s hair brained pet project, or under the table deals to friends. I was just saying hiring consultants provides a non-zero chance that the money is completely wasted.

The less the government tries to do, the better off we'd all be. The biggest benefactors of government are government employees.

[davidI]

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The biggest benefactors of government are government employees.

...and their Contractors/Consultants.

[bjstare]

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...and their Contractors/Consultants.

Zing!

But also, yes.

Fwiw, I'd wager consultants are very far down the list on government annual total spend allocation, but not gonna try and split hairs here.

[davidI]

Good discussion and some recommended reading for those following along: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/lib...ltants-scandal

[Misterman]

In theory, using Consultants makes perfect sense for the government, who is completely unqualified to make anything function efficiently or cheaply. But when you realize that the government is also completely unqualified to negotiate simple contracts, that outline goals, completion dates, late completion penalties, etc. It becomes apparent that using Consultants is likely as inefficient as using government employees. It's a real Quagmire.

And the biggest issue is that instead of using overpaid unqualified employees to fuck something up. Consultants tend to be paid to do absolutely nothing, because they are just a fake shell company made by a government crony for the express purpose of being given a service contract for a task that didn't need to get done in the first place.

[davidI]

Well summarized. Also pertinent to the latest scandal, where the SDTC head gave her own company $217k in fundning.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sus...uren-1.7025892

[Maxx Mazda]

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Sounds great.

BUT Most people, like the vast majority of people, would be very upset with how much extra tax they have to pay under this system.

The vast majority of Canadians do not pay their fair share of taxes.

They'll increase the personal exemption if they need to buy votes from poor people. What is a "fair share" of someone else's income? Fair share means everyone pays the same percentage in my book. All we get here in Canada is that if you work hard, make something out of yourself, and become successful, you'll have to keep paying your 54% and get nothing for it. It gets old real quick.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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They'll increase the personal exemption if they need to buy votes from poor people. What is a "fair share" of someone else's income? Fair share means everyone pays the same percentage in my book. All we get here in Canada is that if you work hard, make something out of yourself, and become successful, you'll have to keep paying your 54% and get nothing for it. It gets old real quick.

This internet stolen thing:

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. “Since you are all such good customers”, he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20”. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his “fair share?”

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. “I only got a dollar out of the $20,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, “but he got $10!” “Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!” “That’s true!!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!” “Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison. “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!” The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

[94boosted]

My next notebook, once my current one is full.

https://www.amazon.ca/Justin-Trudeau...913266&sr=8-21

[Tik-Tok]

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This internet stolen thing:

There's a fatal flaw in this theory.

If the bartender is representative of the government, and the beer are public services, the price of beer would only ever go up, and the quality of beer would only go down. There would however be 30 different shitty beers to choose from, each one pandering to a certain segment of the population, and 10 waiters per customer.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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There's a fatal flaw in this theory.

If the bartender is representative of the government, and the beer are public services, the price of beer would only ever go up, and the quality of beer would only go down. There would however be 30 different shitty beers to choose from, each one pandering to a certain segment of the population, and 10 waiters per customer.

At least I don't Google search big, veiny dildos to the extent that ad's pop up on stuff I'm trying to show my kids¡!¡!

Kelso.Burn.gif

[suntan]

You will now.

[killramos]

I don’t know how to embed a tweet but…

https://twitter.com/kinsellawarren/s...tkURJZQ2Wtc1cw

[max_boost]

wise man once told me, it ain't done until it's done so i'll believe it when it happens
but that's excellent