Trudeau has to go?

[BerserkerCatSplat]

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In 2016, Calgary median mortgage debt was $260g, Vancouver $266g, and Toronto $280g.

House prices in those two markets have surged in the last 5 years while Calgary has been stagnant. I'd like to see current numbers.

[kertejud2]

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Define and quantify "deficits" and "he ran smaller deficits". McGuinty ran deficits of almost the same amount (not accounting for inflation) as Harris' whole term, IN ONE YEAR.

And Ford has done the same compared to both Harris and Wynne. Much like Covid hitting everybody which creates an outlier, the financial crash hit Ontario hardest. McGuinty was holding the line pretty good until the financial crash happened. But still had to make the choice between balancing the budget and keeping voters happy. Then everybody dipped into deficit spending, and they kept creeping back and held the line. Despite McGuinty getting stale (to put it mildly), the steady decline of the deficit didn't sting as hard as Harris' slash and burn that killed the PC brand, which is how Wynne got elected and keep the Liberals at the helm. Managing the crash is what mattered to people, and McGuinty did good enough. Similarly (sane) people aren't going to be blaming Ford for the Covid deficit number, but judging the response to it. Time and time again, voters hate austerity but only dislike deficits.

Harris' fiscal policy was so toxic to people it took 15 years of 'less-than-remarkable' leadership to get people wanting to vote PC again. But he also didn't fix budget problems, there were short term patches that didn't address long term solutions (like selling off capital assets*), and hiding problems like downloading costs to other jurisdictions who have less tools to use to deal with them. Some people saw their income taxes decrease, but the vast majority didn't see any drop much less one that offset the increase in property taxes, user fees, prescription cost increases, tuition cost increases, etc. So they were paying more, getting less...and the debt increased anyway. Plus they were left with a huge capital deficit that would need lots of money to make-up for. The pain of trying to fake a balanced budget just wasn't worth it. It took some impressively miscalculated policies from Wynne to finally end the Liberal reign.

*Fun fact about the sale of the 407. While it did mean an additional $3B on the balance sheet one year for Ontario for the feel goods, drivers saw the tolls increase (which goes over as popular as anything that makes drivers pay for stuff they use). But the real fun part is that SNC-Lavelin sold 10% (of their 16% stake) of it last year for $3.25B. Not a bad little return for a company that needed some cash for some reason.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

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The simple math says the average Canadian owes 300k on their home. And 25k on their car. On an average gross income of 48k/year. That’s not including credit card or student debt.

Those are scary numbers to try and reconcile.

And the Liberals think they will be able to convince Canadians to pay more taxes for more services?

Oh right. The rich will pay for it all.

Those are some pretty scary numbers but when I sit down and think about the mixture of people I know I can totally see them making sense unfortunately. I see a lot of people getting new $1500 phones every year, expensive watches, new electronics etc when their lightly used current items would do them fine.

[Buster]

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And Ford has done the same compared to both Harris and Wynne. Much like Covid hitting everybody which creates an outlier, the financial crash hit Ontario hardest. McGuinty was holding the line pretty good until the financial crash happened. But still had to make the choice between balancing the budget and keeping voters happy. Then everybody dipped into deficit spending, and they kept creeping back and held the line. Despite McGuinty getting stale (to put it mildly), the steady decline of the deficit didn't sting as hard as Harris' slash and burn that killed the PC brand, which is how Wynne got elected and keep the Liberals at the helm. Managing the crash is what mattered to people, and McGuinty did good enough. Similarly (sane) people aren't going to be blaming Ford for the Covid deficit number, but judging the response to it. Time and time again, voters hate austerity but only dislike deficits.

Harris' fiscal policy was so toxic to people it took 15 years of 'less-than-remarkable' leadership to get people wanting to vote PC again. But he also didn't fix budget problems, there were short term patches that didn't address long term solutions (like selling off capital assets*), and hiding problems like downloading costs to other jurisdictions who have less tools to use to deal with them. Some people saw their income taxes decrease, but the vast majority didn't see any drop much less one that offset the increase in property taxes, user fees, prescription cost increases, tuition cost increases, etc. So they were paying more, getting less...and the debt increased anyway. Plus they were left with a huge capital deficit that would need lots of money to make-up for. The pain of trying to fake a balanced budget just wasn't worth it. It took some impressively miscalculated policies from Wynne to finally end the Liberal reign.

*Fun fact about the sale of the 407. While it did mean an additional $3B on the balance sheet one year for Ontario for the feel goods, drivers saw the tolls increase (which goes over as popular as anything that makes drivers pay for stuff they use). But the real fun part is that SNC-Lavelin sold 10% (of their 16% stake) of it last year for $3.25B. Not a bad little return for a company that needed some cash for some reason.

You always drag the conversation back to a weird partisan political analysis. It's the least interesting aspect of our fiscal stupidity. It's simply a reflection of the electorate. I'd be much more interested in your analysis of the populace and how "getting the government that you deserve" has created an environment of mis-management. I doubt any rational person would disagree with you on the ineptitude of the Canadian political class. The answer doesn't lie with them - it lies with the requirement for the average Canadian to change. I doubt they will, but comparing the various decrepit products of the electorate is basically superficial analysis at this point.

[jutes]

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Every time I think the Canadian electorate can't be more naive... I'm proven to be naive. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-election-odds

This is excellent. Canada about to get exactly what they deserve.

[dimi]

Yes, I’m aware of the financial crash. I’m also aware of the massive and convenient deficit spending that continued for 10 years after that and will likely continue for the next 10 years. I don’t even care about the political angle to be honest, more so about how the electorate has been completely separated from reality.

Voters hate reality, forget about austerity, way past that point. Nobody is getting elected on an austerity platform these days, no matter how bleak the actual circumstance might be.

[kertejud2]

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Yes, I’m aware of the financial crash. I’m also aware of the massive and convenient deficit spending that continued for 10 years after that and will likely continue for the next 10 years. I don’t even care about the political angle to be honest, more so about how the electorate has been completely separated from reality.

Voters hate reality, forget about austerity, way past that point. Nobody is getting elected on an austerity platform these days, no matter how bleak the actual circumstance might be.

And what is reality? We ran deficits for 20 years and shit hit the fan globally. High interest rates, recessions, the world was coming to an end. Kept running deficits but interest rates were dropping, economy improving. Preached controlling spending but the economy suffered anyway. Ran surpluses until the financial crash, have been running deficits ever since. Are we worse off today than we were 20 years ago? 30? It doesn't seem to matter. What you need to answer for people is this:

How will the average voter's life improve if the steps were taken to eliminate the deficit tomorrow or by the end of the year?

How would that compare to slowly reducing it over five year? Ten? Twenty? Thirty? Never?

The reality is that people are selfish and think short term So do politicians. Voters remember the bad stuff, and take the good stuff for granted. We've gotten 'free' shit, and don't want to pay for it. Or 'I didn't want it, why should I pay for it?' or 'our grandkids will have to pay for this, because I don't want to.' That's the reason you can't run an austerity platform or a 'raise taxes' platform. Plus the risks are uncertain, the timelines are even more uncertain, all our allies and biggest trading partners are doing it, why shouldn't we?

[jutes]

If you aren’t dying with a maxed out line of credit and incredible debt you are doing it wrong*. Debt is essentially fake numbers in cyberspace and lines of code, can’t pay anything back if you are dead. It’s not like you owe livestock to a farmer in the adjacent acreage. Just 1s and 0s floating around with nothing real to back it up. If I’m 90 with $100,000 owing, would I really care, likely not.

*assuming no kids/grandkids to worry about. yolo.

[dubhead]

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If you aren’t dying with a maxed out line of credit and incredible debt you are doing it wrong*. Debt is essentially fake numbers in cyberspace and lines of code, can’t pay anything back if you are dead. It’s not like you owe livestock to a farmer in the adjacent acreage. Just 1s and 0s floating around with nothing real to back it up. If I’m 90 with $100,000 owing, would I really care, likely not.

*assuming no kids/grandkids to worry about. yolo.

Just have to make sure you've already passed everything left of value to the kids/grandkids before you die, then rack up the LOC and leave the bank hanging.

[Darkane]

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Just have to make sure you've already passed everything left of value to the kids/grandkids before you die, then rack up the LOC and leave the bank hanging.

Is that how it works? Or will debt eventually be passed to the children?

Even right now, it’s not passed down - is it?

[killramos]

GL having the bank extend you non secured credit past 60-70.

Banks are wise to your games.

As for estate taxes, that will always come with gift taxes ( that’s how it worked when Canada had estate taxes, yea that used to be a thing )

No, your debts do not carry to your children but liens on your assets will get netted off for sure.

[jutes]

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Just have to make sure you've already passed everything left of value to the kids/grandkids before you die, then rack up the LOC and leave the bank hanging.

Having kids would change things. If I’m tom hanks in the green mile it’s YOLO.

[AndyL]

Anyone really wondering if these CRA lockouts aren't as a result of CRA being hacked?

Another 800k today.

Not that they'd ever try to hide such an issue, especially during tax season...

[davidI]

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Anyone really wondering if these CRA lockouts aren't as a result of CRA being hacked?

Another 800k today.

Not that they'd ever try to hide such an issue, especially during tax season...

Could be. But my first thought was they cross-referenced their list against lists of leaked passwords (as Google does in Chrome) though I'm not sure if that's possible with how passwords are stored/encrypted. Perhaps people who actually understand backend IT will know.

Regardless, the CRA needs a f'n overhaul. I'm not sure why all taxes aren't done through a simple 20 question website and cross-referenced with actual CRS data.

[davidI]

Kielburgers caught lying. No surprise but it seems most Canadians wouldn't care if the government heated Parliament by burning piles of cash so I don't expect anything to come of this...

https://youtu.be/1pcMN6LwzIw

[ThePenIsMightier]

^that's a funny image. It would make a great political cartoon.
Show all of Heir Justin's female and visible minority cabinet ministers shoveling cash into the fire and have them all covered in coal dust while he fails to answer any questions during Question Period.

[davidI]

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^that's a funny image. It would make a great political cartoon.
Show all of Heir Justin's female and visible minority cabinet ministers shoveling cash into the fire and have them all covered in coal dust while he fails to answer any questions during Question Period.

Media: Were you wearing blackface?
JT: No, it's just soot - I was shoveling cash into the cottage fireplace to stay warm.

[sabad66]

Accurate

[Tik-Tok]

Newfoundland doesn't shut up about it, at least not the old folk who remember how Canada fucked them out of a money printer called Churchill Falls.

[Tik-Tok]

Well if an election wasn't going to be called, it sure as hell will be now. Trudeau would be retarded not to after this.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...te-change-real