Am I crazy or is this the worst time ever to buy a vehicle?

[danno]

Just seems to be the American brands that are having their lots fill up. High prices with high rates is making it a lot harder on people.

The new tacoma is almost out I imagine that will take a couple years to see them on lots waiting to be sold.

[riander5]

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In the case of a Toyota hybrid, they’re crack money, so even if I was check to check I’d buy one at high interest rate. We’ve driven our sienna for 2 years, put on 35k kms and can sell it for 10k more than we paid.

Rav4, Corolla hybrids, all the same craziness. Toyota just can’t make enough of them.

I have a friend who got a 2023 Rav4 Prime, I think he could sell it for damn near 70k

What the fuck is wrong with people

[RX_EVOLV]

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I have a friend who got a 2023 Rav4 Prime, I think he could sell it for damn near 70k

What the fuck is wrong with people

Properly higher. Friend who works at a dealer said their last Rav4 Prime sold for $75K as soon as they put it on the showroom floor. Even a Prius Prime sold for mid 60s.

[rage2]

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I have a friend who got a 2023 Rav4 Prime, I think he could sell it for damn near 70k

What the fuck is wrong with people

He can drive it for a year and selling for that lol. To be fair it’s a great car. Finally had a chance to check one out, it’s surprisingly fast, basically an EV in the city, and zero range anxiety for long trips. I’d take it over a full EV today.

It’s a unicorn and demand is through the roof. Charlesglen says they get 3-4 a year if they’re lucky. I’m hoping they make a Sienna prime. We’re first on the list at several dealerships.

[riander5]

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He can drive it for a year and selling for that lol. To be fair it’s a great car. Finally had a chance to check one out, it’s surprisingly fast, basically an EV in the city, and zero range anxiety for long trips. I’d take it over a full EV today.

It’s a unicorn and demand is through the roof. Charlesglen says they get 3-4 a year if they’re lucky. I’m hoping they make a Sienna prime. We’re first on the list at several dealerships.

Yea I understand the unicorn angle, I just don't understand the psyche of the average joe.

Like I NEED to pay 30k more for a new Rav4 than a gasser.. because... ?? The existing Ravenous 4 as I call it barely sips on fuel as is!

Just doesn't compute for me, then again, I've never driven one and maybe I'm totally out to lunch.

[rage2]

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Yea I understand the unicorn angle, I just don't understand the psyche of the average joe.

Like I NEED to pay 30k more for a new Rav4 than a gasser.. because... ?? The existing Ravenous 4 as I call it barely sips on fuel as is!

Just doesn't compute for me, then again, I've never driven one and maybe I'm totally out to lunch.

Paying over MSRP? Yea, I don't get it, doubt you'd get that back in savings but I gotta spreadsheet that out to be sure. But if you can get it at MSRP, your TCO over 2 years is 0. Probably make money. Toyota is nowhere near ramping up battery capacity to make enough to meet demand in the next 2-3 years. While the car market starts to crumble, Toyota hybrids defy that due to supply constraints especially in Canada.

And yea, the Toyota hybrids are great cars to drive, Prime, even more so. It's night and day drivability compared to the gas RAV4. I got a few coworkers hooked up for Toyota hybrids and did TCO calcs for them over 2 years.

RAV4 Gas (LE) -> $40k purchase tax in, $25k after 2 years resell, $15k TCO
RAV4 Hybrid (LE) -> $42k purchase tax in, $35k after 2 year resell, $7k TCO
RAV4 Prime (SE) -> $53k purchase tax in (there's a $5k rebate), $55k after 2 years, you get paid $2k to drive it for 2 years.

I calculated fuel savings too and the gap is even wider, but I'll keep it to the basics here. We couldn't get a prime at all. They've all settled on hybrids which is hard enough to get as is. If you can get a prime at MSRP, you've basically won the lottery.

[jutes]

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Like I NEED to pay 30k more for a new Rav4 than a gasser.. because... ?? The existing Ravenous 4 as I call it barely sips on fuel as is!

I doubt these people calculate how long it will take to offset the price different by not paying for gas. In this case like you've already mentioned, the standard Rav4 is excellent on gas and the owner is likely to die before that $30k price difference is made up.

I'm no small truck enthusiast, but the new Frontier looks great and you aren't paying the Tacoma tax. I might be biased toward Nissan however....

[rage2]

The gas rav4 has a normal depreciation curve. The hybrids and primes do not. That’s a bigger difference than gas savings. On my fuel saving calculations, from gas to hybrid it’s a $600/year savings at 25k kms a year. Double that for gas to prime, rough guess as it depends on how often you road trip. It’s insignificant compared to the depreciation curve.

[Buster]

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The gas rav4 has a normal depreciation curve. The hybrids and primes do not. That’s a bigger difference than gas savings. On my fuel saving calculations, from gas to hybrid it’s a $600/year savings at 25k kms a year. Double that for gas to prime, rough guess as it depends on how often you road trip. It’s insignificant compared to the depreciation curve.

The depreciation curve for people that are buying them right now on the secondary market will be worse than normal, no?

[riander5]

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Paying over MSRP? Yea, I don't get it, doubt you'd get that back in savings but I gotta spreadsheet that out to be sure. But if you can get it at MSRP, your TCO over 2 years is 0. Probably make money. Toyota is nowhere near ramping up battery capacity to make enough to meet demand in the next 2-3 years. While the car market starts to crumble, Toyota hybrids defy that due to supply constraints especially in Canada.

And yea, the Toyota hybrids are great cars to drive, Prime, even more so. It's night and day drivability compared to the gas RAV4. I got a few coworkers hooked up for Toyota hybrids and did TCO calcs for them over 2 years.

RAV4 Gas (LE) -> $40k purchase tax in, $25k after 2 years resell, $15k TCO
RAV4 Hybrid (LE) -> $42k purchase tax in, $35k after 2 year resell, $7k TCO
RAV4 Prime (SE) -> $53k purchase tax in (there's a $5k rebate), $55k after 2 years, you get paid $2k to drive it for 2 years.

I calculated fuel savings too and the gap is even wider, but I'll keep it to the basics here. We couldn't get a prime at all. They've all settled on hybrids which is hard enough to get as is. If you can get a prime at MSRP, you've basically won the lottery.

I guess my thoughts were less so people leasing and getting into new ones every 2-3 years, and more people driving these for 10-15 years. For short term flippers, in an insane supply crunch, short term ownership certainly makes sense. I think its reasonable to think that Toyota one day can catch up to demand.

[Xtrema]

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Rav4, Corolla hybrids, all the same craziness. Toyota just can’t make enough of them.

When their main showroom is showing a 1988 Supra, 70s FJ Cruiser on one side and 4 Volvo/Ford used cars on the other side, they have nothing.

That said, I start to see some Highlander stock as people are now switching to Grand Highlander?

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Just seems to be the American brands that are having their lots fill up. High prices with high rates is making it a lot harder on people.

The new tacoma is almost out I imagine that will take a couple years to see them on lots waiting to be sold.

Another theory is they are stocking up now if FAW goes on strike in Sep.

[rage2]

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The depreciation curve for people that are buying them right now on the secondary market will be worse than normal, no?

clearly lol.

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I guess my thoughts were less so people leasing and getting into new ones every 2-3 years, and more people driving these for 10-15 years. For short term flippers, in an insane supply crunch, short term ownership certainly makes sense. I think it's reasonable to think that Toyota one day can catch up to demand.

I have never met anyone that pays over MSRP for instant gratification to keep a said vehicle for 10-15 years. No or very little Venn diagram intersection with these 2 groups. Just saying MSRP for some cars at high interest rates, you'll still come out ahead today.

[riander5]

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clearly lol.

I have never met anyone that pays over MSRP for instant gratification to keep a said vehicle for 10-15 years. No or very little Venn diagram intersection with these 2 groups. Just saying MSRP for some cars at high interest rates, you'll still come out ahead today.

Totally agree. I also have never met someone buying Rav4's for instant gratification, but times.. they are a'changin

[Buster]

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Totally agree. I also have never met someone buying Rav4's for instant gratification, but times.. they are a'changin

People also think that boxy, compact minivan, hyundai EVs are the cool new thing.

[rage2]

It's just the nature of limited supply. It's a great marketing tool, even though it's unintentional in this case.

[riander5]

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People also think that boxy, compact minivan, hyundai EVs are the cool new thing.

I just saw the new Santa Fe and actually thought it looked pretty cool.. not an EV.. yet...

[Buster]

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I just saw the new Santa Fe and actually thought it looked pretty cool.. not an EV.. yet...

I dont hate it, but it looks a bit like a chinese knockoff of a Land Rover

[npham]

How long till we see the market fallout for G Wagons (inventory at Lonestar)...

[bjstare]

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I dont hate it, but it looks a bit like a chinese knockoff of a Land Rover

Is that not basically what it is?

[rage2]

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How long till we see the market fallout for G Wagons (inventory at Lonestar)...

It already has. I noted this to a buddy a couple months ago. They’re moving for way less than advertised. Flames players will probably pick them up on discount once hockey season starts and they’re back in town.

The EQE and EQS inventory is even worse. Nobody wants a MB EV in Canada.