Putin vs Ukraine.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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Toe the line not tow the line....

I immediately leapt to The Internet to look that up and prove you wrong. But, it turns out you are correct.
I will celebrate this learning by giving NegRep to Kert!

If your response (I can't tell) was to ZenOps, you should really save your time. It doesn't do dialogue. It just types shit and then types more shit later.

[littledan]

In soviet russia, the line toes you.

[ZenOps]

As pure military strategy, it would make sense for Putin to use one strategic nuke right at the Finland border. Absolutely no tanks or artillery, or even a foot patrol.

Armchair general in full working mode.

[Tik-Tok]

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. Draw the line on the dnieper river and call it a day to save some lives.

So give Russia exactly what it wanted when it started the war? That sounds like a great strategy.

[ZenOps]

Only if they went halvsies on water rights. Crimea pretty much joined of their own volition, but natural water was cut off to the area by Ukraine. For a solid five years they have been trucking in water to that area. Denying water is not a sign of an enemy that is willing to let things slide. Denying natural water is "kind of a Nazi thing".

It would be like invading Las Vegas, Las Vegas deciding to join the invaders instaed, and then Nevada deciding to seal off Hoover Dam.

Canada should invade the USA. There might be enough support that they join willingly. People who want to join the USA have it all wrong, the USA is the one that is crumbling from decay. Join Canada on Canadas terms and rules.

BTW: I'd be willing to bet many USA citizens would convert Canadian for a 9 cent per kwh deal.

[jutes]

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So give Russia exactly what it wanted when it started the war? That sounds like a great strategy.

Defending Ukraine through weapon supply is too hard, intervening militarily is even harder. The west should just let russia gain control of half of the country because we are pussies and only offer solidarity. Thankfully not everyone is like trudeau.

[ExtraSlow]

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So give Russia exactly what it wanted when it started the war? That sounds like a great strategy.

At some point there will need to be a choice between "winning" and "ending" this war.

Winning this war means escalation and extension without a doubt. I don't think that's the path I'd choose.

[Buster]

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At some point there will need to be a choice between "winning" and "ending" this war.

Winning this war means escalation and extension without a doubt. I don't think that's the path I'd choose.

Perfect post

[Tik-Tok]

Giving in to an aggressor for fear of escalation is not a good long term decision.

[Xtrema]

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At some point there will need to be a choice between "winning" and "ending" this war.

Winning this war means escalation and extension without a doubt. I don't think that's the path I'd choose.

Don't worry, Russian has promised their troops it'll wrapped by May 9th, their Victory Day celebration.

[Buster]

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Giving in to an aggressor for fear of escalation is not a good long term decision.

Yes it is.

[Tik-Tok]

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Yes it is.

It's procrastination. Most of our own internal policies that you all hate are based on this as well. Just keep kicking that can.

[ExtraSlow]

I'm not a world affairs expert. But the options are ceding some to Putin, or basically a world war. I don't want to see Canadian troops die. So I choose the former.

[Buster]

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It's procrastination. Most of our own internal policies that you all hate are based on this as well. Just keep kicking that can.

No, it's optimizing the outcome. Everything else is just your misplaced pride getting in the way.

I don't care if the donbas or other parts of Ukraine are under russian control. The alternative to a negotiated settlement has too much cost and risk involved.

[eblend]

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Giving in to an aggressor for fear of escalation is not a good long term decision.

I fully understand and agree, but at some point, you got to cut your losses I would think. It's easy to be Zalenski (or Putin) and hide in a bunker with body guards to protect you and send your own people to death basically. Ukraine has more to lose obviously (land), but if things look grim on the ground and it looks like the chances of pushing back against the enemy are small, do you really want to put a ton of civilians at risk? At some point people are just dyeing for the single fact that you won't admit defeat, and that no longer looks heroic. As a president you should know when enough is enough, and that goes for both Putin and Zelenski. I think an issue in Ukraine though is that even if Zelenski called it quits, the ultranationals won't listen to him as they haven't in the past, and will continue fighting.

[Buster]

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I fully understand and agree, but at some point, you got to cut your losses I would think. It's easy to be Zalenski (or Putin) and hide in a bunker with body guards to protect you and send your own people to death basically. Ukraine has more to lose obviously (land), but if things look grim on the ground and it looks like the chances of pushing back against the enemy are small, do you really want to put a ton of civilians at risk? At some point people are just dyeing for the single fact that you won't admit defeat, and that no longer looks heroic. As a president you should know when enough is enough, and that goes for both Putin and Zelenski. I think an issue in Ukraine though is that even if Zelenski called it quits, the ultranationals won't listen to him as they haven't in the past, and will continue fighting.

If Putin wants to annex of a chunk of Ukraine, he is going to have to deal with a perpetual insurgency in that region. That's just a fact of life for them. The insurgency will be quietly supported by the Baltic countries as well.

[eblend]

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I'm not a world affairs expert. But the options are ceding some to Putin, or basically a world war. I don't want to see Canadian troops die. So I choose the former.

Even Biden said that this might be the outcome of this war and no longer proclaimed "territorial integrity" as they often do. My prediction, is that DNR and LNR will become "independent" states supported by Russia, and will no longer be part of Ukraine. I don't see how they could ever reconcile, the time for that has passed. If Ukraine didn't reconcile with them when it was a regional conflict and gave them some autonomy, now I think that option is completely off the table that it's a full blown war.

[jutes]

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No, it's optimizing the outcome. Everything else is just your misplaced pride getting in the way.

I don't care if the donbas or other parts of Ukraine are under russian control. The alternative to a negotiated settlement has too much cost and risk involved.

You cannot set a precedence where any nuclear power can just blackmail you with treats of nuclear war. By that logic, nothing will stop North Korea from doing their own special military operation on Canada, all they have to do is threaten nuke use.

West has no balls to call Putins bluff.

[eblend]

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If Putin wants to annex of a chunk of Ukraine, he is going to have to deal with a perpetual insurgency in that region. That's just a fact of life for them. The insurgency will be quietly supported by the Baltic countries as well.

Yah, that is unfortunately going to be the case as long as Ukraine allows those types of groups to exist and doesn't outlaw them and actually crack down on them, something that they obviously haven't been doing. If DNR and LNR are indeed to become independent states, and their independence is set in stone in some agreement, then continued bombing of those regions by insurgents won't look good on Ukraine, and would basically be no different for DNR/LNR as they have already endured this for the last 8 years.

As unpopular of an opinion as this might be, I called it back in 2014 that by Crimea getting reabsorbed into Russia (by choice or forced, up for debate), they did save themselves a ton of headaches that Donbas region had to endure for last 8 years. I bet if they could go back in time, Putin would have grabbed DNR/LNR officially at that time, before Ukraine had 8 years to dig in their defenses and thus slow down the current progress.

Every day I wake up and check my phone and hoping that there is some news that this war is over, and every day so far I am disappointed. Pride needs to be swallowed by many people, the West, Ukraine, Russia, and they just need to fucking deal with this and come up with some solution. Aside from the skinheads, no-one else needs to die.

[Buster]

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You cannot set a precedence where any nuclear power can just blackmail you with treats of nuclear war. By that logic, nothing will stop North Korea from doing their own special military operation on Canada, all they have to do is threaten nuke use.

Any time someone says "by that logic", I know a really bad analogy is going to follow.