Solar Panels

[suntan]

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The only thing I know about batteries is that my 4 year old laptop has about 1/3 the life as it did when new, as in when new, I could run on battery for say 6 hours and now I can only get 2 hours

Are the battery banks for houses the same?

Well it's simple chemistry, they will get worse over time. I can't see them lasting more than 10 years even with the best battery management techniques. Eventually they will need to be recycled.

[eblend]

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Do you have this data points and if so are you willing to share?

Indeed. One system I was looking at guarantees batteries for 10 years, so have to be replaced. There are new types of LifePO batteries which last a ton longer and more stable, I know a bunch of amateur guys who build battery systems seem to like them much more, dunno if pro packaged versions use these types or not.

[pheoxs]

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Well it's simple chemistry, they will get worse over time. I can't see them lasting more than 10 years even with the best battery management techniques. Eventually they will need to be recycled.

Not to mention laptops get more bloated with software and garbage running in the background. A clean windows install would probably net a boost in battery life.

Household batteries are also quite different than laptop batteries. You’d likely use a LiFePO4 battery bank for your house. Many are rated for 80% capacity after 5,000 cycles. Portable electronics still use Lithium Polymer batteries due to the high energy density and lightness of the battery. Quite different applications.

[JustinL]

I've also noticed on my android devices the option under battery management to only fill to 80% for longer life. I'm pretty sure my old laptops just run'er up to 100% and leave it there. It doesn't make household batteries economical yet, but we'll get there.

[Xamim]

Batteries are pretty pricey still, especially if you want one big enough to run your house or charge up an EV at night. Nothing wrong with using the grid as a "battery" with a bi-directional meter. If you got something important to protect during a power outage, then just get a UPS. If I had the space for it, I'd get a ground mount system and call it a day. Looking at you eblend haha.

[triplep]

The biggest problem with a battery system is that we don't have enough sunlight in Calgary to get them charged up and make it worthwhile from a cost prospective. While Calgary might be the sunniest city in Canada, it only produces around 2,350 hours of sunlight in a year. Los Angeles does about 3,250 which equates to 900 extra hours a year, or 2.5 hours extra a day. Effectively, they have 38% more sunlight hours then we do in Calgary. With those kinds of levels, it makes way more sense to go battery for storage then putting it back into the grid.

[vengie]

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The biggest problem with a battery system is that we don't have enough sunlight in Calgary to get them charged up and make it worthwhile from a cost prospective. While Calgary might be the sunniest city in Canada, it only produces around 2,350 hours of sunlight in a year. Los Angeles does about 3,250 which equates to 900 extra hours a year, or 2.5 hours extra a day. Effectively, they have 38% more sunlight hours then we do in Calgary. With those kinds of levels, it makes way more sense to go battery for storage then putting it back into the grid.

Disagree.

Size your PV array accordingly.

[suntan]

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Not to mention laptops get more bloated with software and garbage running in the background. A clean windows install would probably net a boost in battery life.

Household batteries are also quite different than laptop batteries. You’d likely use a LiFePO4 battery bank for your house. Many are rated for 80% capacity after 5,000 cycles. Portable electronics still use Lithium Polymer batteries due to the high energy density and lightness of the battery. Quite different applications.

Batteries cycle more than you think. That's part of the problem. The lifespans are based on perfect usage and perfect charging.

[Xtrema]

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Batteries cycle more than you think. That's part of the problem. The lifespans are based on perfect usage and perfect charging.

EV batteries warranty lasts 8 years. So if you think you can get ROI back under 10 years, it's a break even.

So if a 5kw system saves you $0.50/night for 3650 nights, I just can't see how it can even pay for itself. (5kwh Ecoflow kit is $6500 USD)

Electricity rate need to be 2-3x current rate before home battery make sense. Unless you are buying to smooth out grid outages.


The only way it make sense is F150 lighting where EV's battery can flow back to power the home. And you sell the car in 4-5 years cycles to make the battery next guy's problem.

[JustinL]

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The only way it make sense is F150 lighting where EV's battery can flow back to power the home.

I've heard this, but I'm not sure how that could work as you're not allowed to backfeed the grid during an outage. There would have to be some changes to the wiring of the house for that to happen.

[zechs]

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Electricity rate need to be 2-3x current rate before home battery make sense. m.

Floating is 2x3 times higher already. Another 5-10 years, and it will be installed hand in hand with solar installs.

Also these battery claims people are making, with insitu battery installs, the batteries can always be charged/maintained/used to maximize their life.

Car use is worst case scenario useage pattern for batteries. Onsite storage is best case.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories...-car-batteries

Another thing I'm waiting to see is the recycling of "spent" batteries, but not in a "tear them apart" manner but in a "build a wall out of them for backup power".

Backup batteries differ from EV in that you effectively have no space limit. Battery wall down on capacity? You don't need to scrap the whole thing.

There of course are limits, as the individual batteries effectively become cells themselves and need to be maintained/monitored individually.

But the problem is way more practical to solve VS ev.

[Xtrema]

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I've heard this, but I'm not sure how that could work as you're not allowed to backfeed the grid during an outage. There would have to be some changes to the wiring of the house for that to happen.

Need some investments, it's already on AESO's radar but IESO is already piloting:
https://www.ieso.ca/Corporate-IESO/M...-of-the-Future

At minimum I think it'll be nice to have V2H setup. But V2G will give AESO more ability to handle emergency alerts like the one we had last week.

[Bytem3]

I enjoy how residential electricity use in Alberta accounts for about 13% of all electricity used here

So when the sky is falling let’s lean on the sector that uses the least amount of energy… as if it’ll make a big difference

[ExtraSlow]

No portion of the user base should be isolated from price signals that relate to supply and demand signals.

Ideally everyone would have variable pricing that changes by the hour. Only one of my multiple personalities is an economist, but he loves that idea.

[ZenOps]

Lithium batteries went up in price last year. And its pretty much assured that all solar home batteries are going to Europe at above retail markup.

This is a really bad time to buy batteries price wise, but may get even more expensive before long.

[cidley69]

I'm looking to get a new shingle roof and soon after some solar panels.

Would like roof color to match panels for as little contrast as possible.

Anyone know the closest shingle color to match solar panel color? In Iko or Malarkey brand?

[ZenOps]

CIGS is still too expensive for 99% of applications, but if you happen to have a yacht or want to install a solar panel in an active warzone it might be a consideration.

[msommers]

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Whats your usage case? Are you planning on having panels that feed your house direct and then shift surplus back into the grid? Or are you going to have energy storage on site? Your home orientation/exposure and roof angle will impact how much energy your get.

The City has put together a really nice 'heat map' showing the solar potential of your home. Our Greener Homes inspector was indicating a lot of pros for solar and our home is as optimal as it gets in terms of orientation and angle. With a heat pump installed we'll end up using more electricity than gas, theoretically. I want to use the heat pump for a year before getting a true assessment, otherwise our numbers won't look that great because you can technically only generate (IIRC) +110% of your annual power needs otherwise there is some other classification that residential homes don't get.

https://www.calgary.ca/environment/p...alculator.html

The 10 year interest free loan from Herr JT is enticing to complete this ~$25K project (less $5K). The real question is does it make sense and I haven't run the numbers to see.

Plus our roof is 12 years old and so at best we have 10 years left before all the panels need to come off, replace the roof, and reinstalled which sounds like an expensive pain in the butt.

[jacky4566]

I know its an old post but i would like to see a source for that. Now i am curious about the split between industrial and residential users.