Israel at war on surprise attack.

[duaner]

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I meant Isreal is in one as they can't just stop this war. They are literally living on the land that fuels this entire war that was given to them by the UN 70 years ago.

...

I feel for both the jewish and palestinian casualties. But I feel like people think I'm on crazy pills for any sympathy for palestinians

I think everyone has sympathy for the Palestinian civilians, even though many of them want the Jews dead as well. Going back to what I said in a previous post, it is very misleading to say that "They are literally living on the land that . . . was given to them by the UN 70 years ago." That is a common myth of sorts and revisionist history. There have been Jews living in that land for around 4,000 years, in lesser or greater numbers depending on what has happening in the region. They actually had much more land than they do now.

Personally, I find it interesting, but not surprising, that none of the other Muslim Arab nations around there want to allow the Palestinians through their borders. And it's not the first time for that. There are numerous Muslim nations, many of which are Arab, but, even people in the West claim that Israel is on occupied land, which essentially means that they shouldn't be allowed to have their own nation. Not only is it a false claim, it's Jew hatred.

[duaner]

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How is excluding one of the major conflicts adding context? It's terrible that the Hamas kidnapped the teenagers. That doesn't mean the ~700 Palestinian deaths you mentioned don't count for anything.

Because it's an outlier in the data. In the normal course of "day-to-day" deaths, the Israelis are almost 25% that of Palestinians. In war, such as in 2014, the superior power is obviously going to inflict significantly more casualties. And I'm certainly saying those deaths don't count; they do. But, again, in war, there is always going to be civilian deaths, especially when the other side is known to use their own people as shields and hide weaponry and fire rockets among the civilian population.

I heard a quote, maybe from Shapiro, something to the effect of: Hamas loves the death of Jews more than the life of their own children.

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As for your second point.. I mean policy is great. My official policy is to be the same weight and athleticism as I was when I was 20. Ask me how thats going.

My point is that it shows clearly where each side is coming from and just what it is that they want. Israel is trying to prevent deaths; Hamas wants deaths. Here is a quote from the article I shared:

'To put this in perspective (and this view is not just held by the Gazan Palestinians; it is widely held in other Palestinian circles), consider these words from a Jordanian-Palestinian businessman and politician named Talal Abu Ghazaleh. He was being interviewed on Lebanese television on October 12 about the war in Gaza.

He said, “Israel would not sacrifice a single person. There isn’t a goal for which it would sacrifice a single person. They are afraid of death. Death for them is strange and loathsome. We, on the other hand, welcome death. A Palestinian carries his son on his shoulders, with a headband on the kid’s forehead, which his father inscribed: ‘Martyrdom Seeker.’ This is a man who says: ‘I want my son to die.’ A [Palestinian] mother says: ‘I have given birth to six children, so that three could die in the revolution. I gave birth to children so that they would be martyred.’ This does not exist in the Zionist mentality.”'

[Buster]

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I disagree. You can vehemently oppose Hamas, but also believe the people in the Gaza Strip & Palestinians in general are getting screwed over. I'm not saying I have a better plan, but what Isreal has been doing for 30 years certainly hasn't worked well. Like I said previously, Gaza is a pressure cooker with no pressure control switch. Something was bound to happen.

Look at this data on Palestinian vs Jew deaths and injuries and the location of them. Maybe it can help you 'see both sides of the issues' - https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties

Coles notes on data, which only goes back to 2008, Isreal has suffered 4% of the fatalities and injuries of Palestinians.

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Yeah makes sense. Real black and white decision. Fantastic logic.

I wonder what the Jews would have done to the Germans after World War II. They would have bombed them into oblivion. So how can you not support the Nazis?

Yes. Gaza/WB is getting screwed.

By Hamas.

[Buster]

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I meant Isreal is in one as they can't just stop this war. They are literally living on the land that fuels this entire war that was given to them by the UN 70 years ago.

My point was the US tried a fulsome defeat of terrorists and failed many times, but at least they could pack up and leave.

I feel for both the jewish and palestinian casualties. But I feel like people think I'm on crazy pills for any sympathy for palestinians

Israel's responsibility in this is much less than the inability (but really unwillingness) of the Palestinian people to manage their own shit. That goes for the entirety of the Islamic world also.

Israel would be happy to live in peace and see democratic and economic reform amongst the savages. That ideal is not reciprocated by their neighbors.

[Kloubek]

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The issue is, while ancient Israel changed hands under different groups, such as the Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, and Romans...

I don't really refer to "ancient" history, as the region was in constant and regular flux over a very long time. Just like in the Ukraine conflict, where I consider Ukraine as it's own independent nation since the fall of the Soviet Union, I consider the most recent events to be key in determining what I believe to be an unbiased perspective.

As far as I know (and am happy to be corrected), the Brits purposefully created a Jewish nation in the region after WW1, which was exasperated after WW2. This caused a population imbalance, and those who identified as historical Palestinians saw their lands taken over by Israel - who fully established their military hold after a week long war in the 60's.

Since then, areas identified as being designated to the Palestinians have been shrinking and they're now left with very little land. Really, it's not that much unlike what Europeans did to the natives here. Differences being that a) We're done taking their land, and b) We assumed it hundreds of years ago, whereas the shrinking of Palestine is ongoing, so it's a fresh conflict. And, of course, due to the fact the natives didn't rise up as Hamas has. I do realize Palestine was never it's own state, but since this has all happened over hundreds of years as well, the people who have lived there have done so for generations so I can appreciate they feel it is their home. Because it is - despite lack of title.

Again, it doesn't constitute terror attacks. And no, I don't think if it was against grandpas it would be acceptable, but it's particularly heinous when it involves both the ones who are required to procreate, as well as children who are universally considered complete innocents.

[gwill]

Like duaner said, lots of people picking a random date in time to support their reasoning for downplaying terrorists. It seems like 1948 is used by many... nothing matters earlier then that.

People are more focused on Israel then they are hamas which is fascinating to see. Seems many people are afraid to speak against the hate, the desire to murder all jews and eliminate them from the planet.

What a weird time to be alive that this all gets overlooked.

They are Modern day nazis in real life parading through our schools, our streets and our work openly celebrating the elimination of jews. And people think it's okay.

Does anyone work with someone openly supporting hamas/palestine? In my work setting there isn't. With my wife's union there seems to be quite a few.

[gwill]

Some board member for canadians for justice and peace in the Middle East (@cjpme) was on Ryan jespersens pod cast yesterday. She claimed Israel murdered everyone at the festival and that It wasn't hamas.

Imagine someone taking that stance. Then add in she's a board member for an organization like cjpme.

[Tik-Tok]

An organization that supports Palestine is claiming Israel is the evil one? Shocking! No, wait, the opposite of that.

[bjstare]

Could someone give me some guidance on when I should switch out my Ukraine car flags and stickers for Israeli & Palestine ones?

[ExtraSlow]

Run all three flags.

[BavarianBeast]

Don’t forget to fly the rainbow you homophobic assholes

[JRSC00LUDE]

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Run all three flags.

Oh that's just WongYue.

[SportEL]

What does Free Palestine even mean? Are they saying Israel should not exist, and all Jews should leave the area of Israel immediately. Meaning every single area including where their Temple Mount was? Are they advocating for the extermination of all Jews in the Area from the river to the sea as per Hama's charter, as per the "perfect" Muhammad's prescribed command to kill all Jews?

Or does it mean that they should be given their own state? That's what we hear from the UN. Is this about a territorial dispute? Israel has already offered Palestine a State of it's own, 5 separate times.

1. After the Ottoman Empire fell to the British after WW1, the British empire took control of most of the Middle East in 1915. In 1936, the Arabs revolted against them and the Jews. There was a Peel Commission formed to see why there was a revolt. It was determined that the Arabs and Jews wanted to govern the same land and the British's answer was to offer the disputed area in favor of the Arabs, 80% Arabs/20% Jews. The Jews accepted. The Arabs rejected and resumed their violent revolt.

2. In 1947, the British asked the UN for a solution. The UN voted to create two states. The Jews accepted, and the Arabs rejected it. 5 Islamic states attacked and failed. The land set aside by the UN by the Arab State, the West Bank and East Jerusalem was occupied not by Israel but but Jordan. Israel went onto Nation building.

3. In 1967, the Arabs with Jordan and Syria again wanted to destroy the Jewish State. The Six Day War was won by Israel. Jerusalem and the West Bank and the area known as the Gaza Strip were now Israel's. The Government were split between returning the West Bank to Jordan and the Gaza Strip to Egypt in exchange for peace and the other half wanted to return it to the Arabs who now called themselves "Palestinians" so that they could build their own State there. A few months later the Arab League Summit met, and they said No Peace, No Recognition, No Negotiations with Israel.

4. In 2000 Israel's PM Ehud Barak met with PLO Yasser Arafat to create a 2 State Plan. They were offered all of Gaza, 94% of the West Bank with East Jerusalem as its Capital, and Arafat said No to everything. They did instead launch Suicide bombings that killed 1000 Israelis though. Such is the "Religion of Peace".

5. In 2008, Israel's PM Ehud Olmert offered more to the above including additional land. Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said you guessed it, NO.

In between offers 4 & 5, Israel had left Gaza in 2005. However, instead of developing the territory, they turned it to a Jihadist base launching thousands of rockets into Israel. Surprise Surprise, same thing they've done for years including the 3000 so rockets they launched on Oct 7th.

All Israel has done is provide Solutions for 2 States. It is clearly evident that the "Palestinians" don't want Peace. Free Palestine? It's like they didn't think War has consequences. There are no Do-overs in War. Oops, I guess we should have accepted the offers. And now crap we have even less and less land originally offered each time we wage war. Can we Do-over??? They're acting like sore losers and perpetual victims because they lost wars that they started. Yet now even their Islamic neighbors who tried to destroy Israel aren't even taking the "Palestinians" in. Zero. None.

It's clear there can never be One State. And the "Palestinians" don't even want two States. They want all of what they lost back. They want everything even though that area was occupied by all people's of the 3 religions. They want it all back even though they started and lost wars. More importantly this is all based on Islam. The Jews aren't supposed to live. The last hour according to them won't come until all the Jews are dead. Free Palestine is actually a rally cry to Genocide all the Jews in Israel. They certainly killed a lot on Oct 7th in the most brutal and horrific ways. Such is the "Religion of Peace".

[Tik-Tok]

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Run all three flags.

There's one symbol that reflects all three.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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Could someone give me some guidance on when I should switch out my Ukraine car flags and stickers for Israeli & Palestine ones?

As I said in post 198:

[jutes]

Al Jazeera has already acknowledged the hospital parking lot blast was a rocket failure, our PM, not so much.

Trudeau not ready to accept U.S. finding that Palestinian militants' rocket was behind Gaza hospital blast
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tru...gaza-1.7001656

What a fucking joke this government is, canada is an embarrassment.



Totally looks like a bomb dropped from a fighter or drone.

[msommers]

What a haunting image. Wow.

[riander5]

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I think everyone has sympathy for the Palestinian civilians, even though many of them want the Jews dead as well. Going back to what I said in a previous post, it is very misleading to say that "They are literally living on the land that . . . was given to them by the UN 70 years ago." That is a common myth of sorts and revisionist history. There have been Jews living in that land for around 4,000 years, in lesser or greater numbers depending on what has happening in the region. They actually had much more land than they do now.

Personally, I find it interesting, but not surprising, that none of the other Muslim Arab nations around there want to allow the Palestinians through their borders. And it's not the first time for that. There are numerous Muslim nations, many of which are Arab, but, even people in the West claim that Israel is on occupied land, which essentially means that they shouldn't be allowed to have their own nation. Not only is it a false claim, it's Jew hatred.

I may be incorrect, but I believe the Palestinians 'claim' that they just want the land back that was originally offered as per that 1948 land deal. I'm sure Hamas wants it all back, and they are the leaders.. so who knows.

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Because it's an outlier in the data. In the normal course of "day-to-day" deaths, the Israelis are almost 25% that of Palestinians. In war, such as in 2014, the superior power is obviously going to inflict significantly more casualties. And I'm certainly saying those deaths don't count; they do. But, again, in war, there is always going to be civilian deaths, especially when the other side is known to use their own people as shields and hide weaponry and fire rockets among the civilian population.

I heard a quote, maybe from Shapiro, something to the effect of: Hamas loves the death of Jews more than the life of their own children.



My point is that it shows clearly where each side is coming from and just what it is that they want. Israel is trying to prevent deaths; Hamas wants deaths. Here is a quote from the article I shared:

'To put this in perspective (and this view is not just held by the Gazan Palestinians; it is widely held in other Palestinian circles), consider these words from a Jordanian-Palestinian businessman and politician named Talal Abu Ghazaleh. He was being interviewed on Lebanese television on October 12 about the war in Gaza.

He said, “Israel would not sacrifice a single person. There isn’t a goal for which it would sacrifice a single person. They are afraid of death. Death for them is strange and loathsome. We, on the other hand, welcome death. A Palestinian carries his son on his shoulders, with a headband on the kid’s forehead, which his father inscribed: ‘Martyrdom Seeker.’ This is a man who says: ‘I want my son to die.’ A [Palestinian] mother says: ‘I have given birth to six children, so that three could die in the revolution. I gave birth to children so that they would be martyred.’ This does not exist in the Zionist mentality.”'

Haha I just shake my head at 'day to day deaths'. Sounds like the US and their guns. And yeah, that muslim rhetoric seems about right. When you're outgunned and pinned down at every angle, what the hell else can you promise people except some BS martyrdom dream?

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Yes. Gaza/WB is getting screwed.

By Hamas.

I think it's fair to say they are getting screwed on both ends, but voting in terrorists as a main party is a tough look

[jutes]

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I think it's fair to say they are getting screwed on both ends, but voting in terrorists as a main party is a tough look

Maybe their voting machines and mail-in ballots are rigged.

[riander5]

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Like duaner said, lots of people picking a random date in time to support their reasoning for downplaying terrorists. It seems like 1948 is used by many... nothing matters earlier then that.

People are more focused on Israel then they are hamas which is fascinating to see. Seems many people are afraid to speak against the hate, the desire to murder all jews and eliminate them from the planet.

What a weird time to be alive that this all gets overlooked.

They are Modern day nazis in real life parading through our schools, our streets and our work openly celebrating the elimination of jews. And people think it's okay.

Does anyone work with someone openly supporting hamas/palestine? In my work setting there isn't. With my wife's union there seems to be quite a few.

I know a few palestinian supporters. I don't think anyone support Hamas that I'm aware of... at least openly.

All the Palestinian supporters have the same message, Land was stolen, Jews are also inside and all over the west bank in a system of apartheid, Gaza strip is basically a containment camp etc. I don't think those messages are necessarily incorrect either.

This article goes into more detail https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ca...-of-apartheid/

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Maybe their voting machines and mail-in ballots are rigged.

Either way, any innocent Palestinians they are screwed. Fight the Israelis and get shot in the front. Disobey Hamas get shot in the back. Sad stuff