The ABORTION thread.

[g-m]

I seriously don't understand why people are trying so hard to get these completely unwanted kids born into a shitty life. Cheap labor? Half of them end up costing us all social money. Just get rid of them! It makes no sense to me

[max_boost]

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I seriously don't understand why people are trying so hard to get these completely unwanted kids born into a shitty life. Cheap labor? Half of them end up costing us all social money. Just get rid of them! It makes no sense to me

assuming they are healthy too
what if prenatal testing shows they have .. downs or other stuff

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My biggest issues with Canada are the slow erosion of our freedoms and the increased involvement of Government in our lives.

So yes, I appreciate the Charter that sets limits on just how far the Government encroach on our life, liberty, and security.

You would hate the world in which you got the legal changes that would give the State the power to encroach on those fundamental freedoms, which is why it's so fucking hilarious watching you try to cut off your nose to spite your face over the foetus of women you'll never meet in your life, whose kids you'd probably despise if they were forced into society.

i think for us in this generation we are still okay lol until the bubble pops on all the ozark money and in comes totalitarian governance haha

[g-m]

No kidding or FASD. Get rid of them! It's like knowingly allowing criminals and social drain into your country

[ExtraSlow]

Forced abortion in the case of certain detectable birth defects was not previously on my mind but may as well be included in the discussion.

And that also brings up late-term abortions in the case of defects that are detected later.

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And I don't think anyone mentioned pregnancies that are the result of rape.

[Buster]

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My biggest issues with Canada are the slow erosion of our freedoms and the increased involvement of Government in our lives.

So yes, I appreciate the Charter that sets limits on just how far the Government encroach on our life, liberty, and security.

You would hate the world in which you got the legal changes that would give the State the power to encroach on those fundamental freedoms, which is why it's so fucking hilarious watching you try to cut off your nose to spite your face over the foetus of women you'll never meet in your life, whose kids you'd probably despise if they were forced into society.

The Charter is a flawed document. The Canadian constitution is a tire fire.

The state has a function - probably its most important function - is to defend the right of every individual to not be harmed. We are probably in alignment with that. Your failure of logic here is that you are willing to allow a 35 week pregnant mother to infringe upon the rights of an almost full-term fetus. Why you think the mother's right to "do what she wants" supersedes the rights of that late-term fetus is where your little "liberty" argument causes your brain to break. You are reacting precisely how people react when they are forced into collapsing their cognitive dissonance. They become agitated.

[Buster]

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I seriously don't understand why people are trying so hard to get these completely unwanted kids born into a shitty life. Cheap labor? Half of them end up costing us all social money. Just get rid of them! It makes no sense to me

This isn't a conversation on abortion in general. Most people - I would say that vast majority of Canadians anyway - fall within a reasonable range for abortion to be acceptable. That's somewhere in the 15-22 week range. Long enough to know you're pregnant and formulate a plan without urgency. But not too long that you are stretching into the late term where the fetus/baby becomes a viable independent entity worthy of protections.

Then you have pro-life radicals or radicals like @davidI who think late-term fetuses that are viable, formed humans should be abortable.

[max_boost]

Tbh I think you guys are on the same page - neither of you support the extremes but where you seem to differ is
how are our courts haha is it like the Americans
Can our SC be tested on issues like this to the extreme lol

It only got me thinking cuz federal courts overruled single use plastic ban but it’s being enforced by local bylaws so what gives haha

[davidI]

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Then you have pro-life radicals or radicals like @davidI who think late-term fetuses that are viable, formed humans should be abortable.

Ok, how about this as a compromise.

You can force the mother to have the foetus she doesn't want but since you're the one who is so desperate for it to be born, you can assume parental responsibility for all costs and associated efforts in raising it to be a contributive member to society.

Deal?

[max_boost]

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Ok, how about this as a compromise.

You can force the mother to have the foetus she doesn't want but since you're the one who is so desperate for it to be born, you can assume parental responsibility for all costs and associated efforts in raising it to be a contributive member to society.

Deal?

You need to bring some adoption statistics if you gonna go there

[03ozwhip]

Freedom is a good thing. Do what you feel......BUT, the 2 people need to agree and if the woman wants it and the man doesn't, he should be free of all rights.

I dont think anyone that doesn't want a kid should have a kid, spells disaster for these kids.

[max_boost]

Time value of kids over 18-22 years invested in the spy is probably 500k-1million hmmm so I don’t blame anyone from aborting that responsibility

[Buster]

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Ok, how about this as a compromise.

You can force the mother to have the foetus she doesn't want but since you're the one who is so desperate for it to be born, you can assume parental responsibility for all costs and associated efforts in raising it to be a contributive member to society.

Deal?

I think the social safety net conversation is a good one. But a different one.

The idea that you might defend a person's right to not be harmed (ie negative right) is a different proposition than suggesting society has an obligation to provide for a person (ie a positive right).

I'm not saying we should do one or the other, but the conversation around the merits of negative rights vs positive rights is an interesting one. Canadians believe in a whole litany of positive rights. Most libertarian types (myself included), generally feel that any positive right should be limited or doesn't even exist. It's why it is convenient to bury the notion of positive rights behind large, state-run institutions, because it is easier to hide the coercion required to enforce positive rights. ("Pay your taxes, so that people can get free healthcare. If you don't we throw you in jail"...which elevates someone's right to healthcare over the corresponding person's right to freedom. An obviously immoral position.)

Should the state take care of infants that the mother could not abort late term? Maybe, but probably not. But justifying that position by saying the fetus has a right to not be harmed is a non-sequitur.

[Thaco]

the only people who support banning abortions are the ones who know they can manipulate the poverty stricken uneducated people who are a result of the vast majority of disallowed abortions.

[suntan]

Who the fuck greened Thaco. Damn trolls.

[CompletelyNumb]

Was really hoping for a poll here ES

[kertejud2]

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Ok, how about this as a compromise.

You can force the mother to have the foetus she doesn't want but since you're the one who is so desperate for it to be born, you can assume parental responsibility for all costs and associated efforts in raising it to be a contributive member to society.

Deal?

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think the social safety net conversation is a good one. But a different one.

The idea that you might defend a person's right to not be harmed (ie negative right) is a different proposition than suggesting society has an obligation to provide for a person (ie a positive right).

I'm not saying we should do one or the other, but the conversation around the merits of negative rights vs positive rights is an interesting one. Canadians believe in a whole litany of positive rights. Most libertarian types (myself included), generally feel that any positive right should be limited or doesn't even exist. It's why it is convenient to bury the notion of positive rights behind large, state-run institutions, because it is easier to hide the coercion required to enforce positive rights. ("Pay your taxes, so that people can get free healthcare. If you don't we throw you in jail"...which elevates someone's right to healthcare over the corresponding person's right to freedom. An obviously immoral position.)

Should the state take care of infants that the mother could not abort late term? Maybe, but probably not. But justifying that position by saying the fetus has a right to not be harmed is a non-sequitur.

So there you have it: better to bring the fetus to term and abandon it in the forest after it is born than have an abortion after 24 weeks.

[schurchill39]

So far what I have learned in the first 2 pages of this thread is Buster is a more articulate and much more angry Zenops without the fun quirky love of nickles.
.

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Maybe this is old school, or new school thinking (I actually don't know anymore).
But a bunch of dudes debating female body rights is no bueno in my mind.

At the end of the day. The right to choose is all that matters.

100% agreed. Lets go back to talking about chopping off the tips of our dicks. If you want to have a controversial thread at least have one where it makes sense for a bunch of penis owners to have an opinion on.

[davidI]

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So far what I have learned in the first 2 pages of this thread is Buster is a more articulate and much more angry Zenops without the fun quirky love of nickles.

Sums up where I've landed on the issue, too.

[SportEL]

Killing another person in your own body is killing another person. Tearing a person's body out limb by limb to take it out of the woman, yes that would be murder. So I believe it's about standing up for those that can't stick up for themselves - the unborn child. The overwhelming majority of abortions aren't because of the Mom's health. It's for birth control. If you don't want to have a baby, use contraception or abstain. I could be perhaps convinced of rare exceptions of rape.

[g-m]

Why do people who normally couldn't give a fuck about other people suddenly care when it's an unwanted unintelligent growth