Ok so you are just a lefty shill. Good to know.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Ok so you are just a lefty shill. Good to know.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
nah, i'm a "use my fucking brain", sorry bout your luckThis quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
but i guess, everything is left of alt-right, so i guess you're correct
Last edited by Thaco; 01-25-2022 at 10:49 PM.
User title molested by Rage2.
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^^ Fact CheckedOriginally Posted by JRSC00LUDEThis quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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Not sure where you get your source of information but all of these M.Ds/PhDs disagree:This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Amelia G. Johnson, DrPH1,*; Avnika B. Amin, PhD1,*; Akilah R. Ali, MPH1; Brooke Hoots, PhD1; Betsy L. Cadwell, PhD1; Shivani Arora, MPH2; Tigran Avoundjian, PhD3; Abiola O. Awofeso, DVM4; Jason Barnes, MBA5; Nagla S. Bayoumi, DrPH6; Katherine Busen, MPH7; Carolyn Chang, MPH8; Mike Cima, PhD9; Molly Crockett, MPH10; Alicia Cronquist, MPH11; Sherri Davidson, PhD12; Elizabeth Davis, MA13; Janelle Delgadillo5; Vajeera Dorabawila, PhD14; Cherie Drenzek, DVM15; Leah Eisenstein, MPH16; Hannah E. Fast, MPH17; Ashley Gent, MPH16; Julie Hand, MSPH18; Dina Hoefer, PhD14; Corinne Holtzman, MPH19; Amanda Jara, DVM15; Amanda Jones, MPH20; Ishrat Kamal-Ahmed, PhD21; Sarah Kangas, MPH22; FNU Kanishka, MPH21; Ramandeep Kaur, PhD12; Saadiah Khan, MPH6; Justice King, MSc1; Samantha Kirkendall, MS23; Anna Klioueva, MPH24; Anna Kocharian, MS22; Frances Y. Kwon, MPH2; Jacqueline Logan, MPH25; B. Casey Lyons, MPH26; Shelby Lyons, MPH18; Andrea May, MPH27; Donald McCormick; MSHI9; Erica Mendoza, MAS24; Lauren Milroy, MPH28; Allison O’Donnell, MPH10; Melissa Pike, MPH11; Sargis Pogosjans, MPH3; Amy Saupe, MPH19; Jessica Sell, MPH8; Elizabeth Smith, MPH15; Daniel M. Sosin, MD13; Emma Stanislawski, MPH13; Molly K. Steele, PhD1; Meagan Stephenson, MPH1; Allen Stout, MS7; Kyle Strand21; Buddhi P. Tilakaratne, PhD4; Kathryn Turner, PhD23; Hailey Vest, MPH28; Sydni Warner, MS22; Caleb Wiedeman, MPH25; Allison Zaldivar, MPH27; Benjamin J. Silk, PhD1; Heather M. Scobie, PhD1
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e2.htmRates of COVID-19 cases were lowest among fully vaccinated persons with a booster dose, compared with fully vaccinated persons without a booster dose, and much lower than rates among unvaccinated persons during October–November (25.0, 87.7, and 347.8 per 100,000 population, respectively) and December 2021 (148.6, 254.8, and 725.6 per 100,000 population, respectively) (Table 2).
Yes, mRNA vaccines are less effective against Omicron breakthroughs than Delta but they are still far better than nothing at all. As you note, they also greatly reduce the chance of hospitalization which consumes resources from those in non-COVID related medical need... which is a pretty damn good thing for society.
If you can't handle the big words in that link, here's a summary: https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...gainst-omicron
Cliff Notes: Compared with being unvaccinated, the odds of contracting Omicron after receiving three vaccine doses fell 67%, and for Delta the risk declined 93%, the data reveal.The study authors concluded, "These findings suggest that vaccination with 3 doses of mRNA COVID-19 vaccine, compared with being unvaccinated and with receipt of 2 doses, was associated with protection against both the Omicron and Delta variants, although higher odds ratios for the association with Omicron infection suggest less protection for Omicron than for Delta."
In an editorial on the study, Saad Omer, MPH, PhD, of Yale and JAMA Associate Editor Preeti Malani, MD, MSJ, write that the study supports the current booster recommendations in the United States. But the authors warn that, in most of the world and parts of the United States, the primary task of managing the pandemic needs to be vaccinating the unvaccinated—not offering booster doses.
"In many countries, including the US, the pandemic continues to be substantially driven by unvaccinated individuals. While it is useful to provide booster vaccinations, particularly to high-risk groups, only vaccinating those who are not yet vaccinated will result in sustainable control of COVID-19 and prevent additional morbidity and mortality," the authors write.
I'm not surprised you don't understand the analogy. Forcing you not to drink and drive greatly reduces the risk of you hitting me with your car and killing me, just as being vaccinated greatly reduces the risk of you infecting me (or more importantly, those with underlying conditions) and killing me/them.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
What point do indoor smoking bans serve? Oh yea, to protect the health and wellness of the community (just like drinking and driving rules - hope you can put 2 and 2 together on this analogy). And guess what, the courts ruled time and time again that smoking laws were a reasonable limit under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I'm not sure anyone was dumb enough to challenge drunk driving bans but the court's opinion would be the same.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I guess you read the statistics differently: https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-1...ccine-outcomesThis quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Or more likely, you don't read the statistics and form your opinions based on social media.
I'd highly recommend you (and others) give this a watch/listen: https://peterattiamd.com/covid-part2/
He's a Canadian doctor living in Texas (i.e. a doctor who is more on the libertarian side of things but can still reason based on medical fact). To summarize, he (and the other doctors) are pro-vaccination but anti-mask mandate based on the science/data.
Last edited by davidI; 01-26-2022 at 02:58 AM.
They disagree with me how exactly? Do you believe you're far less likely to get Omicron if you're vaccinated and boosted? If so, get the vaccine and you're fine. Again, what other people do makes no difference. Either the vaccines do nothing, and there is no need to mandate them, or they work, and there is no need to mandate them because you can get one and protect yourself from the dirty untouchables. Either way, there's no argument here and certainly not one to support mandates.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
No, it's not clear that they are better than nothing at all for most people, and it's almost certainly the case that the opposite is true for some. But that's completely irrelevant.Yes, mRNA vaccines are less effective against Omicron breakthroughs than Delta but they are still far better than nothing at all.
The threshold for requiring a vaccine to cross the border or function in society or have a job is nothing close to "better than nothing at all". Did you forget the first several decades of your life when we didn't mandate any medical treatment that is simply "better than nothing", such as a flu shot? Shingles? Come to think of it, I've never shown proof of vaccination to cross the border, enter a retailer, or eat in a restaurant, ever, in my entire life, in any country.
This isn't nearly as true for Omicron, and was barely true for delta outside of very specific demographics. Note that "greatly reduce" contains no useful information. Hypothetically, if one has a 0.0000001% chance of something, and another has a 0.000000001% chance of something, thats a 100x decrease! Also, if you're sitting in a small room with infected people wearing cloth masks (lol) and, again, hypothetically, being unvaccinated means you'll catch it after 100 seconds, but being unvaccinated means you'll catch it in 1000 seconds, that's technically 10x more protection, but practically speaking, no more protection. You're still getting it.As you note, they also greatly reduce the chance of hospitalization which consumes resources from those in non-COVID related medical need... which is a pretty damn good thing for society.
See the problem with focusing on relative metrics? The truth is neither one is going to the hospital or dying and you're getting it anyway. I know like 10 people who caught it already who are all vaccinated and boosted.
Greatly reduces the risk of us killing you. Wow. LOL. That's ridiculous on at least 2 levels. You won't die because the vaccines work, remember? And you got one, right? Like a good citizen? Also, and more importantly, you're not personally at risk of dying from covid. Unless you're like 400lbs and unvaccinated, but I'm pretty sure you used to post about fitness stuff, so I doubt that's the case. And if you're 400lbs and you want to lecture me about health decisions, well, maybe it's time we talk about the elephant in the room first. No pun intended.If you can't handle the big words in that link, here's a summary: https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...gainst-omicron
Cliff Notes: Compared with being unvaccinated, the odds of contracting Omicron after receiving three vaccine doses fell 67%, and for Delta the risk declined 93%, the data reveal.The study authors concluded, "These findings suggest that vaccination with 3 doses of mRNA COVID-19 vaccine, compared with being unvaccinated and with receipt of 2 doses, was associated with protection against both the Omicron and Delta variants, although higher odds ratios for the association with Omicron infection suggest less protection for Omicron than for Delta."
In an editorial on the study, Saad Omer, MPH, PhD, of Yale and JAMA Associate Editor Preeti Malani, MD, MSJ, write that the study supports the current booster recommendations in the United States. But the authors warn that, in most of the world and parts of the United States, the primary task of managing the pandemic needs to be vaccinating the unvaccinated—not offering booster doses.
"In many countries, including the US, the pandemic continues to be substantially driven by unvaccinated individuals. While it is useful to provide booster vaccinations, particularly to high-risk groups, only vaccinating those who are not yet vaccinated will result in sustainable control of COVID-19 and prevent additional morbidity and mortality," the authors write.
I'm not surprised you don't understand the analogy. Forcing you not to drink and drive greatly reduces the risk of you hitting me with your car and killing me, just as being vaccinated greatly reduces the risk of you infecting me (or more importantly, those with underlying conditions) and killing me/them.
Even dumber analogy. Smokers are allowed to have jobs and cross the border.What point do indoor smoking bans serve? Oh yea, to protect the health and wellness of the community (just like drinking and driving rules - hope you can put 2 and 2 together on this analogy). And guess what, the courts ruled time and time again that smoking laws were a reasonable limit under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I'm not sure anyone was dumb enough to challenge drunk driving bans but the court's opinion would be the same.
The quality of these arguments makes it pretty clear that this position rests on a solid foundation of steamy bullshit and cognitive dissonance.
This is a retarded counterargument for people who don't have a counterargument. Aka NPCs. The funny part is you got that link from facebook LOL. It still has the fbclid tag in it.I guess you read the statistics differently: https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-1...ccine-outcomes
Or more likely, you don't read the statistics and form your opinions based on social media.
I know, it links to alberta.ca, but evidently you had to go to facebook to get it, so that looks a little silly. Aside from the fact that nobody cited social media as their source and it's a dumb argument anyway. Nothing on that page supports any claim you're making or refutes any claim that anyone else is making. Not to mention they just admitted that they're mixing people in the hospital WITH covid as well as FROM covid in the case counts. I admit, when conservatives were saying "they're counting people who got into a car accident as a covid death!" for the past year, I rolled my eyes. I thought sure it probably happened once or twice. But no. Now Fauci is literally making the same argument here. That blew my mind.
I already listen to Attia and happen to know he agrees with me.I'd highly recommend you (and others) give this a watch/listen: https://peterattiamd.com/covid-part2/
He's a Canadian doctor living in Texas (i.e. a doctor who is more on the libertarian side of things but can still reason based on medical fact). To summarize, he (and the other doctors) are pro-vaccination but anti-mask mandate based on the science/data.
https://peterattiamd.com/why-im-for-...cine-mandates/
Yep. No disagreement there.COVID vaccines absolutely save lives. Full stop. My opposition to vaccine mandates does not in any way diminish my belief in the data supporting the efficacy of vaccines in preventing severe disease and death, particularly in people over 65 and in those with comorbidities.
Oh wow, and next he goes on to make the same argument I did above (I swear, I didn't read this yet. It's just fucking obvious).
And in the table he provides, the absolute risk reduction to getting a vaccine for the 18-64 age group is a whopping 0.01%. And he goes on to confirm that vaccines do NOTHING if you already had covid.If the relative risk reduction is 90% (to make the math easy), you still don’t know if the risk is being reduced from 100% to 10% or from 0.1% to 0.01%. And this matters greatly.
Consider the following example: Let’s say we faced a virus that killed 100% of those who contracted it. A vaccine with a 50% RRR (i.e., only “50% effective”), meaning it reduced deaths by half, would save over 150 million lives in the U.S. But if we faced another virus that killed 0.1% of those who caught it, even a vaccine with 99% RRR (i.e., “99% effective”) would “only” save about 300,000 lives (by lowering the death rate from 0.1% to 0.001%). In other words, in this scenario the vaccine that is 50% is far more valuable—and saves orders of magnitude more lives—than the one that is 99% effective that reduces deaths from 0.1% to 0.001%.
ZERO POINT ZERO ONE PERCENT.
YOU ARE ZERO POINT ZERO ONE PERCENT SAFER. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.
More people in my age group have died crossing the street in my county than from covid. And zero from omicron. I'm still gonna cross the street. I guess you could say I like to live dangerously. Not too dangerously though, I'm still gonna look both ways.
Let's read on!
Thanks, though, I'm really glad you provided this informative data - it's much better than what I was learning on social media! You should send it to Dear Leader so he gives you permission to be an independent human again.0.5% of these Omicron patients required admission to the hospital, compared to 1.3% of the Delta cases;
of the 235 Omicron cases, zero required mechanical ventilation, compared to 11 patients with Delta;
one patient with Omicron died, compared to 12 patients with Delta; and
84% of patients hospitalized with Omicron left the hospital in less than 2 days, compared to 31% of patients hospitalized with Delta.
Of course, none of this should be surprising given what we know from the data out of South Africa, where Omicron originated, which demonstrated the reduced severity of Omicron relative to Delta, even in a country with very low vaccination rates. Omicron is a very mild infection, compared to Delta, Beta, or Alpha, and based on the emerging data I’ve presented above, it seems to be mild even compared to influenza.
Oh it gets better,
So it turns out that firing unvaccinated medical staff was not only unscientific (obviously - they had already been knee deep for over a year), but also absofuckinglutely retarded and the resource crunch we find ourselves in is routine, but also not solely due to covid, and the portion that is proper covid could have been covered by the now-fired healthcare workers, meaning this crisis is largely self-inflicted. Like most of the pandemic response.It’s true that hospitals are stretched very thin right now with the n-th surge of COVID. But a few things are worth keeping in mind. During a bad flu season in the U.S. (recent examples would be 2017-2018, 2014-2015, and 2012-2013) it is common for 50,000 to 70,000 patients to be hospitalized at any one time across the country. This is not very different from what we see today (which says nothing of the fact that roughly half of the hospitalized COVID patients have incidental infections. That is, they are there for another reason, but also test positive for COVID). The difference, today, is that the hospital workforce is greatly reduced, relative to a bad flu season. Why is that? According to a survey by Morning Consult, approximately 18% of healthcare workers have quit their jobs since February 2020, while another 12% have been fired or laid off.
Furthermore, many people fail to realize that hospitals routinely function at 90% capacity in their ICUs. A reduction in workforce of even 10% is horribly disruptive to a system flying so close to the sun. It’s kind of like what happens when one of the OPEC nations, even if “only” producing 3% of the world’s oil, goes offline. Complete and total breakdown of the world’s energy markets ensues. It’s called a marginal supply problem.
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Throwing a few more non contextual comparisons in is not helping your argument. The issue is not me misunderstanding your analogy, the issue is you don't understand your own. Which I'm guessing stems from the fact you don't seem to understand what the vaccine does. There is a major difference between protecting the public from an individuals actions, and protecting an individual from their own actions. If you want to compare vaccine mandates to seatbelt laws, that would be a suitable analogy. But not ironically the government really shouldn't have any business forcing you to wear your seatbelt either.
Great, some doctor is pro vaccine. Guess what?? Most of us are pro vaccine too. I would highly recommend anyone in an at risk category that has not had prior infection, should strongly consider vaccination. It's the mandates and passports most people are against.
Truck goes vroom.
Not going to respond further since you obviously can't comprehend the data already provided.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I should have known I was wasting my time presenting data to someone who I wouldn't expect to understand the basic concept of epidemiological reproduction rates.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Looks like the world decided to delete potato memes?!! I can adapt.
So, I don't have twitter but a friend who does sent me this. Seems like a totally accurate and legitimate number that couldn't possibly be exaggerated. In fact likely only to grow.
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you know it's significantly exaggerated, but i think the irony is amusing, when 1% of people with covid were likely to have a serious outcome, they called it insignificant, now that they have 1% support, it's 'UGE!This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
User title molested by Rage2.
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^^ Fact CheckedOriginally Posted by JRSC00LUDEThis quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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If this thread has taught me anything.. its that this forum really is full of a bunch of bitter old fucks LOL
I like when they add "trump-isms" to things that are clearly nothing to do with the orange man. #edgy
If nothing else covid has been a great social experiment to show how many intolerant cunts there are in the world.
Last edited by JRSC00LUDE; 01-26-2022 at 01:05 PM.
Originally posted by SJW
Once again another useless post by JRSCOOLDUDE.
Originally posted by snowcat
Don't let the e-thugs and faggots get to you when they quote your posts and write stupid shit.^^ Fact CheckedOriginally posted by JRSC00LUDE
I say stupid shit all the time.
Miserable. Not bitter.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
and cynical... Don't forget cynical...This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Cynicism is just being rational these days.
Originally posted by Thales of Miletus
If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
Originally posted by Toma
fact.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
FtfyThis quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
https://forums.beyond.ca/threads/415...ight=miserable
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I include myself in this assessment for the recordThis quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote