Ford Raptor discussion (split)

[shakalaka]

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How can you be a lawyer if you cant even read the entire statement? (jk, sorry too easy). I clearly said in a close ended lease.

Yes, in an open ended lease, buyer is responsible for the residual, so it's basically a financing term, which makes the interest rate matters. In a CLOSE ENDED LEASE, if your intention is to return the car, the interest rate SHOULD NOT matter.

Well in that case I don't understand how this is even an argument then. The whole argument was that this Ford Raptor 'deal' is NOT a good deal regardless of the low payments because of the high interest rate, high residual AND it being open ended. All we were saying was that everyone that is harping on about this being such a good Raptor deal due the low payments was IN FACT not right, due to the interest rate.

And I posted this above too so I don't get what the whole debate is about. I said, it CAN be argued even on a close ended lease that interest rate matters IF you plan to buy out the car at the end of term or sell privately.

Exactly.

Interest rates very much matter on this 'deal' as you don't get to walk away from the vehicle at the end of your lease = open ended lease. Vs - you walk away = close ended lease (in which the interest rate doesn't matter as much). You can argue that even then it matters if your plan is to buy out the lease - or you plan to sell the vehicle privately instead of just handing it back at the end of the term. Interest rate is always relevant one way or the other.

Looks like someone else should be doing the reading instead. Haha.

[killramos]

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How can you be a lawyer if you cant even read the entire statement? (jk, sorry too easy). I clearly said in a close ended lease.

Yes, in an open ended lease, buyer is responsible for the residual, so it's basically a financing term, which makes the interest rate matters. In a CLOSE ENDED LEASE, if your intention is to return the car, the interest rate SHOULD NOT matter.

Hate to be coy here, but you know that interest is still a factor in the lease payment on a closed lease right?

Maybe it matters less on a lease since it’s for a shorter period of time (not nessecarily the case), but a lease is still a financing product subject to interest for the period you have the car. The lease is still a loan. The interest still accrues and will make your payment higher... if you are paying a 50% interest rate on a lease, that’s going to be a doozy of a payment.

Don’t believe me? Try to get out of your lease and see how the numbers the leasing company comes up with work...

Shak isn’t wrong.

[Team_Mclaren]

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Hate to be coy here, but you know that interest is still a factor in the lease payment on a closed lease right?

Maybe it matters less on a lease since it’s for a shorter period of time (not nessecarily the case), but a lease is still a financing product subject to interest for the period you have the car. The lease is still a loan. The interest still accrues and will make your payment higher... if you are paying a 50% interest rate on a lease, that’s going to be a doozy of a payment.

Don’t believe me? Try to get out of your lease and see how the numbers the leasing company comes up with work...

Shak isn’t wrong.

Not if you are going to return it. The only thing matter is the monthly payment. I know the payment is higher if interest is higher, i mentioned that in one of my post. the combination of lease cap cost / interest / residual determines your payment. But If my entire intention is to return the car, and that combination yields a payment that's low, then who cares what the interest is.

for example, would i care if the residual is 95%, interest is 50% and gives you a payment of $200/month on a 50k MSRP vehicle on a 2 year lease that i am going to return?? I for sure doesnt give a fuck lol

[killramos]

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Not if you are going to return it. The only thing matter is the monthly payment. I know the payment is higher if interest is higher, i mentioned that in one of my post. the combination of lease cap cost / interest / residual determines your payment. But If my entire intention is to return the car, and that combination yields a payment that's low, then who cares what the interest is.

for example, would i care if the residual is 95%, interest is 50% and gives you a payment of $200/month on a 50k MSRP vehicle on a 2 year lease that i am going to return?? I for sure doesnt give a fuck lol

Sure, I get that all you care about is your monthly payment, but in your exact scenario the payment is actually $2,200/mo not $200. So yea, interest rate matters a fuck ton. https://www.calculator.net/lease-cal...=400&x=47&y=22

If you are paying a crazy high interest rate on a lease on a high dollar car, even with a very high residual, you are getting ripped off and are better off buying the car, financing it yourself for 2 years, and selling it. Paying a very high interest rate on a lease will make it very hard to get a good payment.

Tl: dr Interest rate matters, it’s not all just about the final monthly payment in smart decision making. Though salesman must love you haha.

[Team_Mclaren]

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Sure, I get that all you care about is your monthly payment, but in your exact scenario the payment is actually $2,200/mo not $200. So yea, interest rate matters a fuck ton. https://www.calculator.net/lease-cal...=400&x=47&y=22

If you are paying a crazy high interest rate on a lease on a high dollar car, even with a very high residual, you are getting ripped off and are better off buying the car, financing it yourself for 2 years, and selling it. Paying a very high interest rate on a lease will make it very hard to get a good payment.

Tl: dr Interest rate matters, it’s not all just about the final monthly payment in smart decision making. Though salesman must love you haha.

that's just an example out of the hat, but sure if you wanna use that against me.

I told you time and time again the logic only applies if your intention is to return it and the payment makes sense.

Let me make it easier for you: a 100k car, on a closed ended lease with a payment of 500/month for 36 months. With interest and residual hidden from you. Would you do it?

[shakalaka]

Well I mean if we are dreaming up impossible scenarios then it all makes sense and sure I will do it. Get me an Aventador for $500 a month for 36 months and I don't care about the interest rate but that's impossible and so is your example. If a car is $100K even at a really high residual of 50% means you're making payments on 50K for 36 months which even at 0% interest end up being almost $1400 a month. For a car to cost $500 a month the residual would need to be more than 80% which would never happen.

Second say hypothetically if it does then to achieve those payments you didn't pay any interest so yea then that's a good deal. If you compare the Raptor scenario to something that isn't even possible then I am sure that $700-$800 monthly payment on the Raptor will seem like a great deal. You're confusing yourself with the Raptor as it's costing you X amount every month and since that amount is a good deal to you, you don't seem to be able to look beyond that. Comparing the example you gave with your actual scenario makes absolutely no sense.

I've bought a few cars in my time as we all know, not once have I ever negotiated monthly payments. I've always negotiated the final price and on many occasions quibbled about the interest rates to get them as low as possible (regardless of leasing or financing). But who knows maybe I've just been doing it wrong the whole time.

[Team_Mclaren]

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Well I mean if we are dreaming up impossible scenarios then it all makes sense and sure I will do it. Get me an Aventador for $500 a month for 36 months and I don't care about the interest rate but that's impossible and so is your example. If a car is $100K even at a really high residual of 50% means you're making payments on 50K for 36 months which even at 0% interest end up being almost $1400 a month. For a car to cost $500 a month the residual would need to be more than 80% which would never happen.

Second say hypothetically if it does then to achieve those payments you didn't pay any interest so yea then that's a good deal. If you compare the Raptor scenario to something that isn't even possible then I am sure that $700-$800 monthly payment on the Raptor will seem like a great deal. You're confusing yourself with the Raptor as it's costing you X amount every month and since that amount is a good deal to you, you don't seem to be able to look beyond that. Comparing the example you gave with your actual scenario makes absolutely no sense.

I've bought a few cars in my time as we all know, not once have I ever negotiated monthly payments. I've always negotiated the final price and on many occasions quibbled about the interest rates to get them as low as possible (regardless of leasing or financing). But who knows maybe I've just been doing it wrong the whole time.

I stopped reading when you think 50% residual is high. but anyways, interest rate plays a factor in determining your lease payment, but it isnt the only factor and it should be treated as such.

[shakalaka]

High in the context of what the vehicle will be worth at the end of the lease and what/if anything you could take out in the form of equity from it. But anyway doesn't matter, you do you bro. That Raptor is a sick truck so enjoy it!

[benyl]

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I stopped reading when you think 50% residual is high. but anyways, interest rate plays a factor in determining your lease payment, but it isnt the only factor and it should be treated as such.

Not sure why you are arguing. Shak does not lose money switching cars like underwear. Go figure

[speedog]

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Straight from the dealer:

"The 801A is $333 Biweekly tax in which is $721.50 Monthly

And the 802A that I sent you fully loaded is $498 Biweekly tax in which is $1079 monthly. Buy out price is $63000



Both are Open ended leases

If you did want to Close the lease that would drastically change the price due to the residual value changing as we are now liable for the end value of the vehicle."

Let's look at this from the dealership's point of view, would the masses step into this truck for $23.79 a day? Simple marketing, I haven't seen a Raptor promoted in this fashion but the Ford dealership downtown is promoting F150's for $13 a day and there's plenty of people out there that'll think that $13 is chump change and easily doable. Is $23.79 that much more of a stretch for a Raptor?

[bigboom]

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that's just an example out of the hat, but sure if you wanna use that against me.

I told you time and time again the logic only applies if your intention is to return it and the payment makes sense.

Let me make it easier for you: a 100k car, on a closed ended lease with a payment of 500/month for 36 months. With interest and residual hidden from you. Would you do it?

I don't get what the arguing is about. The deals that are being advertised right now are garbage. It's a 6% rate, in order to get to that the only thing these lease programs are doing is providing short term financing on a very low depreciation. Why not just buy the vehicle outright at this point?

These dealers are providing financing for 17% of the vehicle. So at the end of two years and you want to keep it fine, you just paid 6% on $17k. Why not just buy it outright on a loan or HELOC at 3-4%?

If you only want it for 2 years you better hope that the value on these raptors is going to have 17% depreciation. Most likely you'll see 35+% and at that point you'll be in a negative equity situation.

Your buyout will be $66k and the truck at 35% depreciation will only be worth $55. On top of that you just paid 6%.

Curious if anyone has been able to find closed ended lease numbers on these though? I talked to three dealers, one had no financing at all and the other two only offered open ended leases on these.

Maybe team_mclaren stumbled onto a wicked deal he isn't telling anyone about?

[ExtraSlow]

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Maybe team_mclaren stumbled onto a wicked deal he isn't telling anyone about?

or it's an awful deal and he'd rather focus on the vehicle then the cost?

[eglove]

I think he got a really good deal cause the finance manager at a ford hooked him up good lol

everyone is "arguing" over the regular advertised deal that doesn't make any sense

[Team_Mclaren]

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I don't get what the arguing is about. The deals that are being advertised right now are garbage. It's a 6% rate, in order to get to that the only thing these lease programs are doing is providing short term financing on a very low depreciation. Why not just buy the vehicle outright at this point?

These dealers are providing financing for 17% of the vehicle. So at the end of two years and you want to keep it fine, you just paid 6% on $17k. Why not just buy it outright on a loan or HELOC at 3-4%?

If you only want it for 2 years you better hope that the value on these raptors is going to have 17% depreciation. Most likely you'll see 35+% and at that point you'll be in a negative equity situation.

Your buyout will be $66k and the truck at 35% depreciation will only be worth $55. On top of that you just paid 6%.

Curious if anyone has been able to find closed ended lease numbers on these though? I talked to three dealers, one had no financing at all and the other two only offered open ended leases on these.

Maybe team_mclaren stumbled onto a wicked deal he isn't telling anyone about?

I have never said what you have posted is a good deal since it's an open ended lease. I do not disagree with you that it's better to buy it out right compares to the terms of that lease you posted.

That was never part of the argument. You seen to understand how a lease work unlike some people here. My argument is that when it's a CLOSE END lease with the intend to return the vehicle, the interest rate is irrelevant.

My deal isnt what you have seen posted.

[4WARNED]

Cam Clark has 67 of them. Literally just walked the rows window shopping.
I pressed a dealer up in Edmonton to get away from this open ended lease bs. We’ll see what they do. If anything

[ExtraSlow]

Did Ford misjudge demand for these, or did dealers order too many, or what happened? 67 in inventory seems like enough for most of the province let alone at one dealer, even the largest one.

Or is there some kind of export program on these that we aren't factoring in here? Although you'd think the leases would be cheaper then, like those private label GMC truck leases that we were talking about.

[Aleks]

In summary, a $90k Raptor for $720/m would be a smoking deal, regardless of interest rate if it was offered on a closed lease, doesn't Ford finance offer closed leases on these?

[Buster]

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Did Ford misjudge demand for these, or did dealers order too many, or what happened? 67 in inventory seems like enough for most of the province let alone at one dealer, even the largest one.

Or is there some kind of export program on these that we aren't factoring in here? Although you'd think the leases would be cheaper then, like those private label GMC truck leases that we were talking about.

Raptors used to be awesome and special. Now they are still awesome, but not special. Raptors are now the Corvette of the truck world.

[benyl]

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Did Ford misjudge demand for these, or did dealers order too many, or what happened? .

Metro is a low allocation dealer. They had 8 last time I checked. I think Ford over built and shoved them to dealers with no tools (financing / leasing) to sell them. It's fucked.

[Buster]

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Metro is a low allocation dealer. They had 8 last time I checked. I think Ford over built and shoved them to dealers with no tools (financing / leasing) to sell them. It's fucked.

so wait until april and some ford incentive to come out, then lowball the shit outta a deal and pay cash. done.