Contract Rates?

[nzwasp]

How do you know how much to charge?

I'm in IT and I can't really find a very good pay survey that accurately shows how much per hour a contractor would charge on the consultant role he is providing.

At my current rate I feel like its not even that much greater than what I was earning as a fulltime employee.

Another friend of mine said you take your fulltime salary and knock it down by a couple of 00's ie 100k becomes $100/hr.

And almost every position I look at has "negotiable" written next to it.

[Euro838]

This is VERY open ended. As you have stated, you will get paid what you "negotiate".

Try starting at $200/hr and then work your way down till they agree.

[phreezee]

Originally posted by nzwasp

Another friend of mine said you take your fulltime salary and knock it down by a couple of 00's ie 100k becomes $100/hr.

What I'm seeing out there now is $65-75/hr range.

I heard Suncor did a a 20% rate cut last Friday, after a 10% cut in 2015. So someone making that $100/hr in 2014 is now making $72/hr in 2016.

[nzwasp]

When I first started in 2007 as a network guy at an oil company the recruiter offered me $45 an hour and I took that because it seemed like a load of money only to find out later than they were getting like $60 an hour over that rate from the oil/gas company.

Then my current contract is the first time I've contracted in 8 years and the rate isnt that much better. Infact when I initially said my rate the recruiter said oh I think we can do more like $55 but I think even then im probably on the low side of what I could be getting paid.

[RealJimmyJames]

what you SHOULD make as a contractor is about double what you would make as a 40-hour per week employee.

So if you would make $100k as an employee, working 2080 hours a year, that's $48/hr, so you should charge about $100 per hour as a contractor. If you can't make that, you are better off as employee.

Problem is contract rates rise and fall pretty quickly, and in any crowded field, or during a downturn, you probably will make less than this benchmark.

Also, if you are creating billable hours for your company, then you should expect to picket no more than 75% of whatever you are bring charged out at, probably less.

[Xtrema]

RealJimmyJames's formula got it right but it's really hard to gauge right now for what standard infrastructure work is worth.

The only ones that are still commanding money is app based (like ERP, Middleware etc). Although available hours are probably got cut by a lot.

Also, back in 2007, if your pimp took 20% off the top, that's pretty typical around that time, especially you have to leverage their insurance. If you found the gig yourself and only need them to do a flow through, they will charge a lot less. I don't think it's any different today, unless your client demand you by name, expect the pimp will still take a similar cut. At least it's not the worst I have heard, I know someone got only $25/hr when the pimp was charging at $60/hr in 2003. He quit as soon as he found out.

Originally posted by nzwasp
Then my current contract is the first time I've contracted in 8 years and the rate isnt that much better. Infact when I initially said my rate the recruiter said oh I think we can do more like $55 but I think even then im probably on the low side of what I could be getting paid.

$55 from recruiter to you, so probably around $75-$80 to the client. That right smack in the middle of what everyone is saying.

I think $100+/hr will be hard to come by right now unless you are very specialized.

[sabad66]

I'd say anywhere from 50-90/hr in this market.

[nzwasp]

In this market, why are recruiters so lazy. Example one called me this morning and asked about my experience to which I told them the job they were asking about wasn't my primary focus of my work to date which they replied "really..." well if they just read the resume I sent them yesterday before calling me they would of known that.

Recruiters in this market really should be busting their asses too imho especially with the lack of jobs.

[J.M.]

I noticed that quite a few recruiters really don't seem to know wtf they are doing

[carson blocks]

In this market, if you're a midlevel generalist, $50/hour is pretty good. If you specialize in security or an in-demand application or niche, $75+. Lots of contracts that were $100+ last year are getting redone for $75 or less in this market, and there are no shortage of unemployed people willing to undercut the rate. I'm expecting to take a 25+% rate cut on my next gig.

Originally posted by nzwasp
In this market, why are recruiters so lazy...
Recruiters in this market really should be busting their asses too imho especially with the lack of jobs.

In this market, they likely have 1000+ resumes on their desk for each position. Unfortunately the candidate has to put the effort in and make a relationship with the recruiter, make them like you, and sell them on why you're the absolute best candidate to put in front of their client.

They get paid for filling postings with warm bodies, they really don't care which warm body fits in which spot, so long as they get paid by the client. If it's not 'easy' to fit you in the spot they have in mind, they'll simply move on to the next resume.

[nzwasp]

Originally posted by J.M.
I noticed that quite a few recruiters really don't seem to know wtf they are doing

I'd love to experience a day in the life of a recruiter because of this fact. But I won't lower myself to their level.

Hopefully any beyonders that are recruiters are actually good at their job, if not maybe they can throw up a reason why this behavior exists.

I guess they all go along with the philosophy that if they throw enough shit (in this case our resumes) at the wall something will stick.

Originally posted by carson blocks


In this market, they likely have 1000+ resumes on their desk for each position. Unfortunately the candidate has to put the effort in and make a relationship with the recruiter, make them like you, and sell them on why you're the absolute best candidate to put in front of their client.

They get paid for filling postings with warm bodies, they really don't care which warm body fits in which spot, so long as they get paid by the client. If it's not 'easy' to fit you in the spot they have in mind, they'll simply move on to the next resume.

Well in my case I haven't applied online for any of the stuff they call me about, they just find me on linkedin and approach me.

[carson blocks]

Originally posted by nzwasp

Well in my case I haven't applied online for any of the stuff they call
me about, they just find me on linkedin and approach me.

I find this happens all the time in IT. I get calls all the time for stuff that doesn't remotely fit my skillset or career level. I'm 15 years in to my career and got a call for a help desk position the other day because the 'help desk' keyword hit on my resume due to me running a help desk in the past.

The recruiters all too often don't have the technical background to understand their own postings or the clients needs, but manage to remember a couple buzzwords. They search monster, linkedin, etc. for those words and if you come up, they call you and see if you're a fit. Minimal effort.

In my experience, IT recruiters generally could use more high level IT knowledge, at least enough to understand what their client truly needs and to understand the resumes they get and how they fit the clients needs. Too many seem to skate by on comparing buzzwords between the client and resume and hoping for the best.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by carson blocks
In my experience, IT recruiters generally could use more high level IT knowledge, at least enough to understand what their client truly needs and to understand the resumes they get and how they fit the clients needs. Too many seem to skate by on comparing buzzwords between the client and resume and hoping for the best.

Yup. Just like every industry in Calgary until 2014, you don't need to know what you are doing to get paid.

Back in my contracting days, it's not that much better. It's all about rapport more than finding the perfect guy. (Within reason tho, but I have seen truck driver hired for low level tech work before).

[carson blocks]

Originally posted by Xtrema
It's all about rapport more than finding the perfect guy. (Within reason tho, but I have seen truck driver hired for low level tech work before).

That approach (though not to that extreme), I subscribe to. I can teach a non-techie person with the right attitude some basic tech skills far easier than I can teach people skills to a techie with none. Give me someone intelligent with some aptitude and most importantly the right attitude who fits with the team, and I'll train the rest.

[nzwasp]

Hi beyond contracting experts.

Need some advice on this.

So some random US recruiter approached me to submit me for a role in Calgary for compucom or someone like that. Anyway they havent even submitted me yet and they are asking me for my tax ID, and company name and shit like that.

They said its required to submit me but this seems ultra fucking wierd.

Should I give it to them or just say no, I already replied saying I want a good reason to do this.

[carson blocks]

^ Google the recruiter, or post the name and let Beyond CSI at it. Check the client's website for the position, and if available, apply directly. I'd be suspicious, I've only had a few contracts, but have never been asked for that info until (especially tax # etc) until it's contract time.

[nzwasp]

Yeah they seem legit from the states. I found another recruiter in town who has the same job being advertised and I could apply through them then again I think that theres no way I would be accepted in that position. They wanted 5 years experience in alcatel / lucent enterprises switches and all my Lucent experience is from 12 years ago when I replaced modem banks.

The recruiter also said it was a ops analyst and that she could give me a good rate, the rate was $50 an hour no higher which would be a decrease from right now. She then put forward the submission and it was for a network ops manager, bit off, I called her on it and she said she didnt know how that was mixed up.

I denied giving her the info and she said:

"Unfortunately, my company’s policy is that the contract needs to be in place before we can move forward with the submittal (to avoid a manager wanting to move forward with the hire and then having an issue with a contract)"

The weirdest thing was when she emailed me 3 days ago she said I was in their database but i searched through my email and there were no references so i think this was BS.

[carson blocks]

If you can apply through a different recruiter that doesn't give you that 'no' feeling, I'd do that. It's a rough market, but for an enterprise networking position, with any kind of experience, I agree $50 is kinda meh.

[nzwasp]

Unrelated to recruiters/recruiting

This isnt so much about contract rates as it is general pay for positions but I was talking to some people in Vancouver about how alot of Calgarians are taking their "jobs" in BC for a lot lower pay than advertised.

I presume thats how people are beating out other candidates in Calgary as well, undercutting everyone. I know I've applied for about 250 positions since november and heard back from 1. Alot of those positions ask you for desired salary straight up and I wonder if I am just aiming too high and being beaten by someone putting down 60k or lower.

When we bounce back from this, are all those highly qualified low paid workers just going to leave their current jobs and go back to the highly paid jobs they had prior to 2015 or ??

[Buster]

People don't get into recruiting, they end up in recruiting.

Also, lots of recruiters do it unsolicited by the client. They see an ad posting, and essentially repost it, in the hopes that someone will contact them through THEIR ad, and they can then sell that person to the ultimate employer.

It's a bit like the RE agents, who just re-post MLS listing on their website, as if it is their listing.