Alberta Provincial Right wing party discussion

[HuMz]

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I haven't even considered the abuse angle. I'm thinking more of the lines that this isn't playing to the UCP's strengths. Alberta (and Canada) has a large portion of centrists who aren't socially conservative, who voted for the NDP, and probably are regretting it. They want sound fiscal decisions and take the social conservatism as long as it's kept in check (like how the Harper government was voted in and kept in place for a while). For the UCP to win, it needs those voters. No matter what the reason for the opposition to the GSA, they sure aren't framing themselves well so early on and the left will pounce on that.

How about this: Albertan's first, smaller government, less nanny, less debt. Start from the ground up, regain the trust that was lost in the first place. Instead, the UCP seems like it feels it's the "natural ruling party of Alberta"

I think the Centrists need to recognize the greater principles at play behind this. It has traditionally been conservatism that has recognized it is the parents who have the ultimate role and responsibility of raising their own children as they see fit (abuse not withstanding), and the state is merely a supplementation to that, not a replacement.

The NDP don't share this philosophy, because at their core is a form of Marxist thinking. And under this philosophy, it is the state who holds ultimate control in raising children, not the parents. The problem is, the NDP knows that they can't come out and argue for this philosophy, because history shows us that it hasn't worked, and the vast majority of people would be against it. So what they do instead is pick side issue's like this one, where they can act like they're actually advocating for a certain issue. When in reality, this issue is just a front to further advance their worldview (and political agenda) under the guise of something else.

As I have tried to illustrate in the past, many centralists have falsely believed that they can just be a fiscal conservative, but ignore all the social issues. It doesn't work that way, because behind virtually every law or economic policy is a social issue. And while centralist's or conservatives want to excuse themselves from any perceived social issue, those on the left have open reign to implement such policies enacting more laws, creating bigger government, and burdening us with more debt.

[Buster]

depends on how you define "centrist".

Someone who is small government/libertarian is not taking a stand on social issues. They are taking a stand on personal freedoms. The true political dichotomy today is authoritarian vs. libertarian, not Left vs Right.

[Xtrema]

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depends on how you define "centrist".

Someone who is small government/libertarian is not taking a stand on social issues. They are taking a stand on personal freedoms. The true political dichotomy today is authoritarian vs. libertarian, not Left vs Right.

But I think authoritarian can still got left and right wing. Ban sex education, ban abortion on the right, ban free speech, ban religion on the left.

Correct me if I'm wrong, UCP stance is outing kids is left to educators where NDP is saying you can't out them at except for the kids themselves. Both are saying GSA are a good thing, did I get this right?

The problem I see is that there are so much ideological noise in social media that nobody knows exactly what's going on and means. And the problem I see where the western worlds are heading into, since the rise of social media, is direct democracy.

[HuMz]

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Humz I don’t think you understand what a GSA is either. It’s not a sex Ed class it’s a social support group. In fact GSAs in general oppose any focus on the bedroom.

Yes, and it is a social support group that deals with issues related to sexuality and gender. While you can suggest they oppose any focus in the bedroom, the Alberta GSA Network, organized by the provincial “experts”, directed K-12 children to community supports with sexually graphic material and resources. So to me it is clear that the government has already breached that level of trust. And any responsible parent should ensuring that parents have a right to question their children if they've joined a GSA, to ensure that we don't have a repeat where kids as young as kindergarden could have been exposed to material regarding sex toys, favorite sex positions, how to give blow jobs, or masterbation through their GSA.

[Xtrema]

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And any responsible parent should ensuring that parents have a right to question their children if they've joined a GSA, to ensure that we don't have a repeat where kids as young as kindergarden could have been exposed to material regarding sex toys, favorite sex positions, how to give blow jobs, or masterbation through their GSA.

As oppose to them learning from youtube and friends?

[Tik-Tok]

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And any responsible parent should ensuring that parents have a right to question their children if they've joined a GSA.

What part of this bill is stopping parents from asking their kids if they've joined a GSA?

[HuMz]

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As oppose to them learning from youtube and friends?

Are you really making the argument that kids as young as kindergarden should be exposed to that?

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What part of this bill is stopping parents from asking their kids if they've joined a GSA?

I was referring to questioning the school, not questioning their children.

[J-hop]

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Yes, and it is a social support group that deals with issues related to sexuality and gender. While you can suggest they oppose any focus in the bedroom, the Alberta GSA Network, organized by the provincial “experts”, directed K-12 children to community supports with sexually graphic material and resources. So to me it is clear that the government has already breached that level of trust. And any responsible parent should ensuring that parents have a right to question their children if they've joined a GSA, to ensure that we don't have a repeat where kids as young as kindergarden could have been exposed to material regarding sex toys, favorite sex positions, how to give blow jobs, or masterbation through their GSA.

Do you have examples where your last sentence actually happened?

It is odd to see in these right leaning threads how the conversation constantly focuses on the sex part of the relationship. Why are conservatives so interested in this?

[RealJimmyJames]

I can't tell who is trolling who in this thread.

[Xtrema]

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Are you really making the argument that kids as young as kindergarden should be exposed to that?

Head in sand or tackle the problem head on? You rather they learn from you or educators instead of from Elsa and Spiderman on youtube?

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What part of this bill is stopping parents from asking their kids if they've joined a GSA?

Because parent who oppose this usually have shitty relationship with their kids and they will tell them nothing. Which isn't really any different if GSA is around or not. Just another thing to be mad about.

[SKR]

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where kids as young as kindergarden could have been exposed to material regarding sex toys, favorite sex positions, how to give blow jobs, or masterbation through their GSA.

How many bad habits do you want a kid to develop before he learns how to suck a dick the right way? If we have to put up with people being gay the least they can do is be good at it, so the sooner a GSA teaches them the better.

[HuMz]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...inks-1.4025302

[HuMz]

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Head in sand or tackle the problem head on? You rather they learn from you or educators instead of from Elsa and Spiderman on youtube?

Isn't that what sex education is for? Where they at least try to arrange the material based on the age of the audience, and not on some FB page targeted for a much older crowd? And if you truly believe that a child as young as kindergarden should be exposed to sex toys, favorite sex positions, how to give blow jobs, or masterbation, then I think that speaks to your moral depravity and irresponsibility as a parent, and it shouldn't be forced on every other parent.

[J-hop]

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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...inks-1.4025302

What I was asking for was an actual example where an 8 year old was exposed to this. Not for you and your buds at fear mongering media to concoct a worse case secenario where some little kid unsupervised on the web goes through a link chain to an article about sex toys. Also your theory that without a GSA this would be way less likely to happen because kids aren’t bombarded by links they shouldn’t visit all day...

[tonytiger55]

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I don't see why a Conservative would not vote for the UCP because of this. What I do see is an unfounded presumption that there is wide-spread child abuse at the hands of Alberta parents when finding out their kids are in a GSA. For those who actually support this legislation, where is the data to suggest that there is an issue with parents who will physically harm their children if they find out their children are in a GSA? And isn't there already laws against that?

Depends on ones upbringing and social understanding.
I know Sikh, Muslim and Catholic Culture oppose any form of homoesexuality. The people are shunned, sometimes beaten. Its not the physical abuse thats bad. Its the mental abuse that does the most damage. People are a lot of the time are having to deal with this later in life. I know people who have had to deal with this. Its horrific.

As for data...well how would you measure this? How would you enforce the laws?

[Gestalt]

Haha. Wow. Some real dishonest imsinuations of what gsa's are by some despicable people.

Sad. More then funny i guess.

You assholes suggesting that they are dick sucking lessons should quite simply be beat with lumbar

[Abeo]

No true Scotsman vs the strawman.... Fight!

[phreezee]

As I parent I'd want to know ASAP so I could take the kid hunting and visit a steel mill.

[HuMz]

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Depends on ones upbringing and social understanding.
I know Sikh, Muslim and Catholic Culture oppose any form of homoesexuality. The people are shunned, sometimes beaten. Its not the physical abuse thats bad. Its the mental abuse that does the most damage. People are a lot of the time are having to deal with this later in life. I know people who have had to deal with this. Its horrific.

As for data...well how would you measure this? How would you enforce the laws?

I think its important to recognize that from a legal perspective, child abuse constitutes a certain standard. For social services, or the police to get involved because a parent was abusive over their childs sexual orientiation or gender identity, would be well documented. So I think if this was an actual problem, the data would be readily available for the government to make the case, as to why this is such an issue and we need to do more. I think it is much more likely the opposite, that parental abuse towards their LGBT children is probably at a record low (and dropping). I say this because the overwhelming majority would never abuse their kids over their sexual orientation or gender identity, attitudes towards the LGBT are very favorable, and the rates of violent disciplinary measures (like spanking) have plummeted.

I think whats at the heart of this discussion is opposition to LGBT issues, from the mental side of things. In that if a parent doesn't agree or support their childs gender identity or sexual orientation, that it is child abuse. And that it what "we ought to protect" by letting parents the chance to know if their child is dealing with one of these topics. While the former would have been alot more common 20+ years ago in Canada, I think the vast majority now are referring to the latter.

[HuMz]

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What I was asking for was an actual example where an 8 year old was exposed to this. Not for you and your buds at fear mongering media to concoct a worse case secenario where some little kid unsupervised on the web goes through a link chain to an article about sex toys.

I have no clue if a child was exposed to it, that's why I said they "could" have, not that they were.

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Also your theory that without a GSA this would be way less likely to happen because kids aren’t bombarded by links they shouldn’t visit all day...

This is a strawman, nowhere did I make or imply such a theory. I very clearly said "While you can suggest they oppose any focus in the bedroom, the Alberta GSA Network, organized by the provincial “experts”, directed K-12 children to community supports with sexually graphic material and resources. So to me it is clear that the government has already breached that level of trust" as a response to your claim that there was no focus on the bedroom.