Versatile Professional Designations

[themack89]

As I come of age and get closer to having kids / starting a family, I think it might be time for me to look at getting a professional designation of some sort. Or, at least a skill set that would be relatively future proof. Something I can also do when I'm old and frail.

My background:
Economics Bachelors (and half a science degree)
Used to do oilfield cementing
Used to drive big rigs
Used to do roughneck
Used to do MWD (by far my favorite job lol)
Used to estimate/bid on mechanical upgrades and manage them through to completion
Currently estimate/bid on earthworks/infrastructure projects and manage them through to completion
Currently partner at earthworks company. It is doing quite well but I do too much and I don't want to kill myself

My interests and skills:
I like project-style work (e.g. moving from one well site to another, or one construction project to the next, etc.)
Good common sense (I say this because I work with a lot of different engineers who don't have good common sense)
I like pressure
I like complicated systems
I like stick-handling delicate situations
I like to have power
I can write well when I need to
I can do math well when I need to
I can program stuff (as long as I have an objective and there's a syntax guide, I have good handle on variable types and stuff)
I am good at making people feel uncomfortable
I am bad at making people feel comfortable
I am bad at small talk
I'm not against going back to school (kind of expecting it).

I will say with confidence that there isn't any technical subject I can't excel at if there is a sufficient motivator to do so.

Top of my list is CPA. But I don't actually know anything about the life of a CPA. Or if I need to go back to a 9 to 5 to gain proper experience.

I need some suggestions. Feeling out the crowd, so to speak.

[dirtsniffer]

Power engineer?

Pressure and power!

[ExtraSlow]

Project management PMP?

[themack89]

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Power engineer?

Pressure and power!

Mmmm I was inches away from going that route when I was doing MWD. Lotsa guys were getting laid off and gearing up to do their exams, and we are products of our environments.

Do you have any anecdotal experience as to why it'd be a nice fit? I never actually did it those many years ago because it seemed like more of the same. Just being away from home a lot. I could be wrong.

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Project management PMP?

I think it's inevitable I'll get one. At this point I could just study for the exam and take it because I have all of the hours (work + school).
I seem to remember you and I exchanged a few words on this, we viewed PMP the same way we viewed an MBA: anyone who is in the position to get one doesn't really need one.
But, let's pretend I did get one, over a CPA for example. How do you think life would be different? Better? Worse? I've noticed a lot of guys at the bigger engineering firms or super major construction firms all seem to have one. I wonder how much they actually get paid.

*Edit.. Here we go haha:

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Your opinions of pmp and mba mirror mine. The jobs that require those skills that also match my skills would recognize my work experience as sufficient. Those that would not recognize my work experience would also not look at me if I had those letters.

[bjstare]

CPA would be orders of magnitude more useful than a PMP, assuming you want to switch gears completely. Can be decent money in tax/audit with one of the big four if you stick it out for a few years as well (really good money if you stick it out long enough to make partner).

If you want to stay on the side of things where you're running your own business, and can hack out the workload, I'd recommend CFA (or PMP if you don't want to work so hard). It will be useful for you in your current situation, but offers a lot of opportunity if you want to do something else.

You could go the management consulting route (that's the sector I work in). Would need to get an MBA or CFA to make it easier to break into, unless you know someone that can give you a reference. It's high pressure and high workload. It's project delivery, albeit in a different context than what you're used to. Can be a lot of travel. As I write this out, I'm starting to think I'd rather do what you do... should we switch?? haha

If you're already a partner in a business, why not figure how to further develop/grow the company? If it works out, you can be a little less hands on within another 5-10 years, which is the time it would take to get your footing built somewhere else anyways


TL;DR - CFA will be the most versatile, in my opinion. At the end of the day, all businesses exist for one reason: to make money. I asked someone who was very successful if he had any words of wisdom, and he said find out how your company makes money, and stay close to the money.

[HiTempguy1]

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Do you have any anecdotal experience as to why it'd be a nice fit? I never actually did it those many years ago because it seemed like more of the same. Just being away from home a lot. I could be wrong.
:

I don't think its what you are looking for at all, and his suggestion was strictly as a joke.

Lots of plants pay good money for power engineers though. Senior PE at places like Nova are making 175k-200k+ after OT. And those people are in their own beds every night.

But shift work, and the easy to get jobs/experience is in fort mac flyin/flyout. I don't know why you'd want to switch to that from what you currently do.

[bjstare]

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I don't think its what you are looking for at all, and his suggestion was strictly as a joke.

Lots of plants pay good money for power engineers though. Senior PE at places like Nova are making 175k-200k+ after OT. And those people are in their own beds every night.

But shift work, and the easy to get jobs/experience is in fort mac flyin/flyout. I don't know why you'd want to switch to that from what you currently do.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Had to have been a joke haha, it's like the least versatile thing. And not a "professional" designation (i.e. lawyer, doctor, engineer, accountant).

[ExtraSlow]

Cfa would be a huge change for you. PMP might or might not.

And I'm not saying PMP is great, I stand by my previous comments. I honestly can't think of a single designation that greatly improves the employability of someone who is not currently working.

In fact, despite the very good reputation of the CFA designation, because you have no directly relevant experience, I'd say it would be a futile path.

Then again, I'm pretty bitter.

[themack89]

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If you're already a partner in a business, why not figure how to further develop/grow the company? If it works out, you can be a little less hands on within another 5-10 years, which is the time it would take to get your footing built somewhere else anyways

The honest answer is I anticipate that I will get bored. The business thing is not really stimulating enough. It was at the start, but now it's more or less going through the motions. Growth happens through the grind is what I am finding, with a sprinkle of innovation and creativity here and there.

So, what I am gathering thus far is:
CFA: Better than most things> Probably not for me because I'd basically be rebuilding a career. I'd like some anecdotal evidence on what kind of powers a CFA actually grants if someone can provide.
MBA: See CFA, but less useful. And honestly, I think the grind required is proportional to the value generated. MBA's take a year. CFAs and the others take several years.
CPA: CPA Better than PMP, but again it points back to the career rebuilding. Are there any routes I can take with a CPA that don't involve grinding out for a firm?
PMP: The glove that fits the best, but not necessarily the most 'versatile'. I would continue to be a jack of all trades and master of none. Albeit, a skilled jack.

What I haven't heard comments on:
P. Eng? Or P. Tech?
Lawyer? Of the many many types.

Thanks for the responses so far guys. Alternative thought: Which designation might help me leverage my experience in owning and running a business? That "in-house" skill set that can be leveraged to the nuts if I want to start a new one.

[jwslam]

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What I haven't heard comments on:
P. Eng?

Based on your previous education it'll probably take a solid 3 years of FT studies to complete an engineering degree, and then the relevant experience needed to get your license. Depending on your study and career path, it's pretty easy to get pidgeon-hold into O&G and into a specific discipline.

Personally I don't believe my engineering degree taught me remotely enough of what I need to know, but moreso how to think like an engineer. I do agree that there are a lot of jobs that will look at having a P. Eng as a requirement, but there are ways around that like P. L. Eng. (see https://www.apega.ca/apply/professional-licensee/)

[you&me]

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Cfa would be a huge change for you. PMP might or might not.

And I'm not saying PMP is great, I stand by my previous comments. I honestly can't think of a single designation that greatly improves the employability of someone who is not currently working.

In fact, despite the very good reputation of the CFA designation, because you have no directly relevant experience, I'd say it would be a futile path.

Then again, I'm pretty bitter.

Forgive me if I'm unfamiliar with your circumstances, but are you bitter because you have a CFA that hasn't delivered what you'd hoped? Or are you bitter because you have another designation that's proven to be futile?

I'm on board with your view of MBAs. It's a designation that I've looked into in the past and decided against, partly due to the reasons you outlined - not opening any doors that wouldn't likely open anyways - but mostly due to the fact that it seems to be getting very watered down from the prestige it seemed to carry ~10 years ago, with every unemployed Tom, Dick and Harry engineer getting one in Calgary over the last 3 years (or so it seems).

I'm less familiar with a PMP, but would be curious to hear more thoughts on this.

Regarding the CFA, I would expect it to be the most practical of the three, being the most applicable to running your own business, or for it's potential door-opening. A good friend in IB has often remarked that, while obviously useful, the CFA acts more like a badge of "I can work my balls off" then anything else... Which based on what's been said already, might place it back in the same category as the MBA and PMP for the OP, as it wouldn't serve to open any doors that wouldn't likely open on their own...

[gqmw]

I'll weigh in on the business ones - just some quick thoughts.

CFA: Lowest commitment in terms of capital - you could get it done for like <$5k even including study materials and all that. Time commitment - well it depends on how good you are at studying, but they always say average is ~300 hours per level. However, I do note that some employers do know how much work it takes into getting this so they look at it favorably, even if you've only completed a couple of the levels and don't have your charter. But in terms of how it'll help you excel your career? It could definitely help you land a more entry level gig somewhere and if something like capital markets, wealth management, etc. is a route you'd like to explore, that's something that could help but it's not super impactful in my view. It'll also take a lot more in terms of networking and all that to get you in the door.

MBA: Most versatile in my view, opens up a lot of doors to do all different types of things. You won't have to take as many steps back and your chance of landing a gig that "won't kill you" is definitely higher. This is the most expensive option of course but there's a wide variety of ways you could do it (part time, full time, etc.) and some are definitely more cost efficient than others. School does matter in this case but it's a complete reset button, the variety of roles you could get after would be far more than either of the other two.

CPA: Do you really want to be an accountant? You're going to have to take a bunch of pre-req classes before you can even start the program and then you need to get your hours - getting your hours will be a grind and for little pay. It may not be easy to get a gig in accounting from where you are today though and you'd definitely start at the bottom again. To me at least this would probably be the least viable option for someone in your shoes.

Happy to chat further.

[bjstare]

RE: Law, you'll also be starting from scratch with this. It won't help your work-life balance. It probably has the highest earning potential (although "grinding" to grow your business could have high potential as well, but you probably already know that). I know a few lawyers, and the school is about as much of a commitment as an engineering degree (I know a guy that's done both), so that will be easier done before you have kids. Law is very versatile, in that depending on what you specialize in you can pretty much do it anywhere in Canada, IIRC once you're called to the bar in one province it's pretty easy to get accredited in another. (i.e. specialize in family law. Every city/town has people that have to sort out wills or get divorced).

If I wasn't already as far down the path as I am, I would absolutely do a law degree. I wrote the LSAT a couple times and did well, but my undergrad grades (engineering) weren't good enough to get into any of the schools I wanted to go to. If I was a bit younger at the time and not in a committed relationship I definitely would have gone away for school and got the law degree.

Wouldn't recommend going back for an engineering degree. Way too much time invested, and earning potential isn't as high. That's why I don't practice engineering anymore. (caveat: this opinion will change if oil can sustain $90 for a few years. At that point any idiot with a P.Eng can make okay money. A smart guy with a P.Eng can start a company and make really good money.)

[max_boost]

Where the Beyond ballers at? @Buster what you got for letters?

[HiTempguy1]

So this might be a crazy question, but what do you think you'll gain out of a career change? Sounds like you are bored... maybe other areas in your life could be more fulfilling to make up for a job/career that is kind of meh?

Part of the reason I haven't quit my current job even with my business. It just doesn't make sense to give up what I have until I am 100% certain the path forward is clear. From a lifestyle standpoint, my day job is fine and would provide me with everything I want/need until I die.

I personally feel a lot of people get too wrapped up in their jobs. Additionally, you are in your 30's, right? The payback on any 4 year+ of education, combined with the lost wages and starting from scratch is substantial.

Like, if I were to go back to school for 4 years, I'd be missing out on $400k in income, and still have all the costs associated with being an adult with a developed life, along with starting at the bottom of my new field probably earning $60k-$80k per year, so tack on another $100k in lost wages over the next 5 years of you gaining experience/moving up in a company.

$500k because you are bored? Grow the business big enough that you can put someone in your place, then go chase a dream job.

Currently partner at earthworks company. It is doing quite well but I do too much and I don't want to kill myself

[bjstare]

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[snip]
$500k because you are bored? Grow the business big enough that you can put someone in your place, then go chase a dream job.

I agree with your comment about growing the business before chasing other stuff. That being said, $500k might seem like a lot, but over the next, say, 30 years of working? That's like $16k per year to be NOT bored - for an entire career. That's peanuts. Not to mention life will be more enjoyable if you're doing something you like for a living, and you'll probably be better at it and make more money anyways.

[HiTempguy1]

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I agree with your comment about growing the business before chasing other stuff. That being said, $500k might seem like a lot, but over the next, say, 30 years of working? That's like $16k per year to be NOT bored - for an entire career. That's peanuts. Not to mention life will be more enjoyable if you're doing something you like for a living, and you'll probably be better at it and make more money anyways.

I don't disagree, I think its REALLY dependent on where he is in life.

But I will say, if we are looking at future values and whatnot, technically I would argue its $1.4mil if you take $16k, invest it, and add $16k every year for 30 years with an average return of 6%. Even just looking at the $16k, that a VERY nice vacation for a guy and his missus for 2-4 weeks every year.

Maybe its just the type of person I am, but my suggestion is based on I would try to minimize my time at work while earning as much money as I could so I can go do the things I want to do. Which may even involve earning money, but it would be earning money on my own terms vs "daily grind" which OP is suffering through now.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[ExtraSlow]

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A mid life crisis maybe?

Not maybe bro. . . .

[Buster]

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find out how your company makes money, and stay close to the money.

IMO, this is the best advice you can give anyone, anywhere (if financial returns are their main goal). Althought I would modify it to say "stay close to the levers that generate revenue", but that's just splitting hairs.