Ghost kitchens - do you care?

[KrisYYC]

I have a feeling this will become more and more common as delivery app usage increases. And I don't care if one kitchen is cooking several types of cuisine. It's take-out. It's not like you're getting authentic chefs right now anyway. Your take-out pizzas aren't being hand made by Giuseppe from Naples lol.

The online/app reviews will make or break them.

[you&me]

I read the thread before I checked the links (and hadn't heard of a ghost kitchen until now)... At first I wasn't sure. I thought maybe there was a possibility of some sort of two-tier dining operation, where you'd order from, say, Maxboost and two scenarios were possible - if you picked up, you'd get the authentic thing, but if you ordered through an app, there was a possibility that a 'knock off' would be produced at some other (ghost) location to minimize delivery times.

That doesn't seem to be the case, yet. As it is, I'd say it's a great idea and have no problem with it.

[A790]

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I think you will find that these owners have an incentive to build up a history of positive reputation in the marketplace.

This is my thought exactly.

I'm always amazed at how people immediately assume the worst possible scenario for things like this.

Having in-depth personal experience in restaurant ownership, I DREAM about the type of business you could build with no dining room, low overhead, and a hot-to-trot consumer environment.

This would be a killer opportunity for an entrepreneur with experience in the industry or an owner/operator chef that wants to make good food and not have to deal with entitled customers, kids trashing their place, cleaning up a dining room, thieving servers, etc.

I LOVE this idea.

[you&me]

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This is my thought exactly.

I'm always amazed at how people immediately assume the worst possible scenario for things like this.

Having in-depth personal experience in restaurant ownership, I DREAM about the type of business you could build with no dining room, low overhead, and a hot-to-trot consumer environment.

This would be a killer opportunity for an entrepreneur with experience in the industry or an owner/operator chef that wants to make good food and not have to deal with entitled customers, kids trashing their place, cleaning up a dining room, thieving servers, etc.

I LOVE this idea.

So when do you 'open'?

[Xtrema]

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I read the thread before I checked the links (and hadn't heard of a ghost kitchen until now)... At first I wasn't sure. I thought maybe there was a possibility of some sort of two-tier dining operation, where you'd order from, say, Maxboost and two scenarios were possible - if you picked up, you'd get the authentic thing, but if you ordered through an app, there was a possibility that a 'knock off' would be produced at some other (ghost) location to minimize delivery times.

That doesn't seem to be the case, yet. As it is, I'd say it's a great idea and have no problem with it.

That's my 1st take on it then I realize nobody is knocking off anyone. It's just a kitchen that is potentially under multiple names under the app serving multiple types of food.

One of the problems is that like everyone said, they could close and restart under different name relatively easy so for the customer, just because trying a different restaurant because you hate the other one may get you the same crap food from the same crap chef.

But I would assume the review system under the app should be able sort them out. Like avoid restaurants that is under 500 reviews and 4 stars and under.

The other problem I can see is that it would put pressure on other traditional sit in restaurants' take out biz because they are undercut by this lower cost set up. As they already got a deep cut by these delivery apps charging them 25% of bill to have it delivered.

[ExtraSlow]

Awesome to hear people who are more knowledgeable than me chime in. I'm pretty old school, and don't even use these appz.

I do agree with Cam that the best run places will have good quality, and those will be the ones that thrive. Could be some growing pains, but I suppose that's no different than other restaurant business models.

[you&me]

Maybe I missed it, or misunderstand, but I didn't see anything that says there's some mini food factory pumping out multiple types of cuisine? At least, not yet...

My impression was that it's still one "restaurant" making food for one menu, but they don't have a traditional dine-in area, or even a takeout counter which allows them to operate in unconventional locations and saves them a ton of overhead... It's incredibly smart and I'd be perfectly fine with it (or maybe I have and don't even realize it!?).

I'm curious - several posters mentioned something about local pizza places operating this way... Which ones? When? Where?

[ExtraSlow]

Right from the cbc article

But between 6 p.m. and 3 a.m., the restaurateur behind the business says it will be abuzz with delivery drivers ducking in and out, bringing orders from 13 different restaurant concepts to people across the city with late-night cravings.

The restaurant (or restaurants) opened Wednesday as Alberta's first "ghost kitchen" — multiple restaurants operating out of a single kitchen space, leaving the customer service and delivery up to third-party delivery companies.

[Tik-Tok]

I could see this system being abused, and quickly. Like someone using the ghost kitchen in name only, but doing all the cooking from their garage kitchen in their house and being able to avoid any health inspections.

[Buster]

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I could see this system being abused, and quickly. Like someone using the ghost kitchen in name only, but doing all the cooking from their garage kitchen in their house and being able to avoid any health inspections.

If they want to break the law I guess

[msommers]

I like going to a restaurant, especially an ethnic one, where I'm really trying to find something traditional such that, it would be 'like Mom made it.' Except with a ghost kitchen, Mom might actually be making it! Perfecto.

My biggest hesitation is food safety. I mean I'm sure there are a couple restaurants I go to that wouldn't even pass a health inspection if they did it this instance, but at least someone is checking in on it.

Maybe it's my mindset about it, hard to say.

[mr2mike]

It'll be good until someone dies from allergic reaction.

[ExtraSlow]

I don't think the food safety issue is a problem. Or at least not a bigger problem than most restaurants. These places will be inspected like any other restaurant by Alberta health.

- - - Updated - - -

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It'll be good until someone dies from allergic reaction.

Are people with life threatening allergies ordering takeout at 3AM? Fuck, that seems risky no matter where you order from.

[you&me]

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Right from the cbc article

Ooops... I tend to avoid cbc articles like you do ghost kitchens...

[ExtraSlow]

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Ooops... I tend to avoid cbc articles like you do ghost kitchens...

Fair enough, they aren't exactly know for great reporting.

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And I don't exactly "avoid" ghost kitchens, but I've never run across one, probably because I don't use food delivery apps.

[you&me]

Understood... Sorry for missing that.

In my case, I have no problem with a single kitchen / single cuisine, but I need to consider it further before I can say for sure how I feel about the multi-disciplinary the ghost kitchens.

I guess in the end, it would come down to quality. If there's a ghost kitchen that can whip up excellent Thai, pizza and fried chicken, I don't see why I should be bothered by that (particularly if they pass on some of their cost savings in the form of lower prices. I know - yeah right). If they end up being a Jack of all trades, master of none, then... well, they're not any different than any other takeout place I order from - you read the reviews, take a shot and if it sucks, choose somewhere else next time.

[speedog]

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Understood... Sorry for missing that.

In my case, I have no problem with a single kitchen / single cuisine, but I need to consider it further before I can say for sure how I feel about the multi-disciplinary the ghost kitchens.

I guess in the end, it would come down to quality. If there's a ghost kitchen that can whip up excellent Thai, pizza and fried chicken, I don't see why I should be bothered by that (particularly if they pass on some of their cost savings in the form of lower prices. I know - yeah right). If they end up being a Jack of all trades, master of none, then... well, they're not any different than any other takeout place I order from - you read the reviews, take a shot and if it sucks, choose somewhere else next time.

There are plenty of generic sit down restaurants that multi-cuisines right now that are always busy and that people aren't dying because of. Earls would be just one that I could think of. 4th Spot is another.

[A790]

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It'll be good until someone dies from allergic reaction.

I'm unsure of what the point of this post is. This danger already exists regardless of the model of the restaurant- it is ever present in any type of food service industry, whether a sit-down restaurant or a food truck.

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So when do you 'open'?

If I had any interest in opening a brick and mortar food service business, this model would be on my list.

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One of the problems is that like everyone said, they could close and restart under different name relatively easy so for the customer, just because trying a different restaurant because you hate the other one may get you the same crap food from the same crap chef.

But I would assume the review system under the app should be able sort them out. Like avoid restaurants that is under 500 reviews and 4 stars and under.

The other problem I can see is that it would put pressure on other traditional sit in restaurants' take out biz because they are undercut by this lower cost set up. As they already got a deep cut by these delivery apps charging them 25% of bill to have it delivered.

Something that I think we should discuss is whether or not a ghost kitchen is required to have a commercial premsis. This one is interesting, because if so, closing up shop and starting over isn't as easy as assumed.

Hell, even if not, reputation is everything - especially in out app-centred, review-obsessed digital society - and simply starting over isn't an easy option.

Finally, what's the problem with ghost kitchens putting pressure on sit-in restaurants? Moreover, if they're getting deep cut by delivery apps charging 25%, they should either look into other options or create their own. Adapt or die.

A sit-in restaurant is as much about the experience as it is the food. If a restaurant doesn't do a good job cultivating that, then they need to either up their game or learn how to kick ass in the era of delivery.

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I could see this system being abused, and quickly. Like someone using the ghost kitchen in name only, but doing all the cooking from their garage kitchen in their house and being able to avoid any health inspections.

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I like going to a restaurant, especially an ethnic one, where I'm really trying to find something traditional such that, it would be 'like Mom made it.' Except with a ghost kitchen, Mom might actually be making it! Perfecto.

My biggest hesitation is food safety. I mean I'm sure there are a couple restaurants I go to that wouldn't even pass a health inspection if they did it this instance, but at least someone is checking in on it.

Maybe it's my mindset about it, hard to say.

Why would they be permitted to avoid the regulations forced on every other food service business?

I'm not sure what people think would happen- that someone would start a business from their kitchen and an app like SkipTheDishes would let that happen? Or the city, for that matter?

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Understood... Sorry for missing that.

In my case, I have no problem with a single kitchen / single cuisine, but I need to consider it further before I can say for sure how I feel about the multi-disciplinary the ghost kitchens.

I guess in the end, it would come down to quality. If there's a ghost kitchen that can whip up excellent Thai, pizza and fried chicken, I don't see why I should be bothered by that (particularly if they pass on some of their cost savings in the form of lower prices. I know - yeah right). If they end up being a Jack of all trades, master of none, then... well, they're not any different than any other takeout place I order from - you read the reviews, take a shot and if it sucks, choose somewhere else next time.

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There are plenty of generic sit down restaurants that multi-cuisines right now that are always busy and that people aren't dying because of. Earls would be just one that I could think of. 4th Spot is another.

Exactly this. I can think of a number of ways that a business could operate a multi-cuisine delivery business and be successful. The two most obvious (off the top of my head) would be...

1) Have more than one chef, each with a different specialty.

2) Rent out a station in your kitchen to chefs that want to operate in the space but lack the capital to acquire their own premesis/kitchen/etc.

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Anyway, assuming the city doesn't forget to treat these businesses as food service businesses and thus regulate them accordingly, this type of model will very likely mature into offering more convenience and cuisines for delivery. That sounds totally awesome and also totally inevitable- it's so obvious that I can't believe it took this long to become a thing.

[mr2mike]

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I'm unsure of what the point of this post is. This danger already exists regardless of the model of the restaurant- it is ever present in any type of food service industry, whether a sit-down restaurant or a food truck..

Because if you have allergies where you can die, you're going to read the entire menu and if they serve shellfish anywhere on it, you'll pick another place or not eat.

If you read the menu at the said ghost kitchen and see only pizza so you order it, ot knowing that the kitchen is also making sushi out of the same kitchen, it really puts the ownership that if there is a reaction completely on the ghost kitchen because nothing disclosed what they made in their kitchen.
It's an easy win lawsuit waiting to happen.

[A790]

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Because if you have allergies where you can die, you're going to read the entire menu and if they serve shellfish anywhere on it, you'll pick another place or not eat.

If you read the menu at the said ghost kitchen and see only pizza so you order it, ot knowing that the kitchen is also making sushi out of the same kitchen, it really puts the ownership that if there is a reaction completely on the ghost kitchen because nothing disclosed what they made in their kitchen.
It's an easy win lawsuit waiting to happen.

Your logic is making way too many assumptions. Why wouldn't the kitchen disclose what they're making? Why are they at risk of some legal jeopardy that every other restaurant isn't also at risk for (based on your reasoning)?

Moreover, if the other foods the kitchen is making is also on their menu, how would the onus at all be on the kitchen vs. the consumer?

Nevermind the fact that the restaurant - like any other restaurant does - would likely have an allergy disclaimer on their menu, website, or both.

Finally, I still fail to see how this problem is unique to the ghost kitchen model or somehow not already a risk for consumers now. Multi-discipline restaurants already exist.