Alberta 2019 Provincial Election

[pheoxs]

So I was reading more about the Carbon Tax and I'm actually really worried about the UCPs platform now. If a province doesn't have a Carbon program in place (Sask/Ont/etc) then all the money from the program goes into the Federal slush fund which they use as they see fit.

So basically if the UCP scrap our current system and we are then forced to do it through the federal system, and all that money goes from being reinvested in our province to being part of the federal funds. And lets face it, the federal government doesn't give a shit about Alberta and is going to spend all that money in green infrastructure programs in Ontario where they want to buy votes.

So it goes from being a consumption tax that at least helps with Ctrain/LRT upgrades and such to being a consumption tax we probably won't see anything from.

[dirtsniffer]

Federal program will return the funds to the province afaik

[Buster]

Then worst case is we lower our carbon tax as far as the feds allow.

[pheoxs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Federal program will return the funds to the province afaik

Can you actually find a source though? I searched repeatedly and never actually found any formal source for that. A lot of it was just assumption based.

On a side note I saw this on reddit and thought it was sorta interesting.

[killramos]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Can you actually find a source though? I searched repeatedly and never actually found any formal source for that. A lot of it was just assumption based.

On a side note I saw this on reddit and thought it was sorta interesting.

https://dailyhive.com/toronto/ontario-carbon-tax-rebate

If we turf our tax we get treated exactly the same as Ontario.

They take the tax money and then perform their wealth redistribution Ralph Bucks style.

Big thing your convenient info graphic is missing is the massive deficit spending by the NDP beyond what the receive in tax revenue. Whereas the tax system under Ralph actually went towards something, paying down our debt.

[pheoxs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

https://dailyhive.com/toronto/ontario-carbon-tax-rebate

If we turf our tax we get treated exactly the same as Ontario.

They take the tax money and then perform their wealth redistribution Ralph Bucks style.

Big thing your convenient info graphic is missing is the massive deficit spending by the NDP beyond what the receive in tax revenue. Whereas the tax system under Ralph actually went towards something, paying down our debt.

Thats exactly the point though. Back then we paid more across the board in taxes and had a balanced budget / surplus. Since then we've dropped taxes everywhere and now we have a deficit.

Dropping the corporate tax rate even further to 8% isn't going to create more revenue.

[killramos]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Thats exactly the point though. Back then we paid more across the board in taxes and had a balanced budget / surplus. Since then we've dropped taxes everywhere and now we have a deficit.

Dropping the corporate tax rate even further to 8% isn't going to create more revenue.

We also managed to have balanced budgets and surpluses with far lower taxes than we do now.

The issue you continue to be missing is the deficit is not caused by loc of taxation but massive and out of control spending by the NDP on literally anything and nothing.

I’ll stick to my low taxes and more moderate government spending thanks.

[CompletelyNumb]

If you keep reading that Reddit thread, you'll see all the comments pointing out how this is just cherry picking statistics.

[rage2]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Can you actually find a source though? I searched repeatedly and never actually found any formal source for that. A lot of it was just assumption based.

On a side note I saw this on reddit and thought it was sorta interesting.

Wasn't Ralph Klein elected in '94? He definitely cut taxes over his tenure.

[Xtrema]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So I was reading more about the Carbon Tax and I'm actually really worried about the UCPs platform now. If a province doesn't have a Carbon program in place (Sask/Ont/etc) then all the money from the program goes into the Federal slush fund which they use as they see fit.

So basically if the UCP scrap our current system and we are then forced to do it through the federal system, and all that money goes from being reinvested in our province to being part of the federal funds. And lets face it, the federal government doesn't give a shit about Alberta and is going to spend all that money in green infrastructure programs in Ontario where they want to buy votes.

So it goes from being a consumption tax that at least helps with Ctrain/LRT upgrades and such to being a consumption tax we probably won't see anything from.

1st of all, we are still running deficit and carbon tax goes to general revenue. So removal of the tax is only impacting income, doesn't necessarily impact spending like C Train/LRT upgrades (But project could drop off in the name of cost cutting). Carbon Tax wasn't implemented as revenue neutral. But it's just an alternative to Prentice's health care premium that people didn't like either.

Kenney on surface wants no carbon tax but he promised a tax against large emitters, whatever that means. So in effect, he is replacing something that everyone can see to something that will be hidden in your energy generation/production.

Also interesting article on Kenney and Oil patch CEOs:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/ken...ceos-1.5083119

[HiTempguy1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Can you actually find a source though?

You mean, like the one I posted a page earlier? You literally rehashed last page's conversation

- - - Updated - - -

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

1st of all, we are still running deficit and carbon tax goes to general revenue. So removal of the tax is only impacting income, doesn't impact spending like C Train/LRT upgrades.

Yes it does affect spending, because at some point even lefties like yourself go "holy shit, our taxes are going to be HOW MUCH?!"

The less revenue the gov has, the less bullshit they can try to pull off.

[Xtrema]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yes it does affect spending, because at some point even lefties like yourself go "holy shit, our taxes are going to be HOW MUCH?!"

The less revenue the gov has, the less bullshit they can try to pull off.

What I meant is carbon tax isn't revenue neutral and doesn't have specific programs tied to it.

Much like Prentice's health care premium doesn't go to AHS but to general revenue as well.

What I'm trying to say is, it's a tax/fee that doesn't directly support a service. Of course, taxpayers eventually have to pay for it but at least in the old health premium, it actually goes to health and not potentially used to service debt for other sectors.

TLDR, I rather have taxes that binds the government to a particular service than they do it with whatever the hell they want in general revenue (Sky Palace etc).

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Thats exactly the point though. Back then we paid more across the board in taxes and had a balanced budget / surplus. Since then we've dropped taxes everywhere and now we have a deficit.

Dropping the corporate tax rate even further to 8% isn't going to create more revenue.

According to Kenney's peer reviewed study, the cut in tax would generate economic activities that generate taxes back. If all according to theory, it should 8% tax and 12% tax should have equal tax revenue. The question is being 3% less than 2 next door neighbors will attract any business to come set up in Calgary/Edmonton.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Federal program will return the funds to the province afaik

Well, remember how Ralph bucks got out to other provinces? I wonder if the reverse will happen that carbon tax collected from the 4 provinces will be distributed country wide. So like Pheoxs said, not having a home grown carbon tax scheme may inadvertently signs us up for another equalization scheme until either Fed loses in court or Sheer get power and abolish it.

[dirtsniffer]

All taxes are general revenue.

[dirtsniffer]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Wasn't Ralph Klein elected in '94? He definitely cut taxes over his tenure.

For instance, when our debt was paid in full under Klein the corporate tax rate was lower than what it is currently.

[Darkane]

I went through some CRA archives and my number didn’t match for Alberta $29,590 tax. I got $1100 and that was before the royalties credit I believe.

Someone want to check my Marth?

[HiTempguy1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What I meant is carbon tax isn't revenue neutral and doesn't have specific programs tied to it.

Uh, so? By cutting government revenue, you cut the ability to fund stupid, outlandish projects because they go "well as long as debt is xx% of revenue we're good".

If nothing else changed tomorrow except for carbon tax going "poof", you bet your ass it would affect the budgets of some projects.

[04Terminator]

Anybody read Mr. Potato Head telling CEO's from oil companies that support a carbon tax that he doesnt need advice form billionaires?

Oh my.

Like giving control of the carbon tax to the Feds is the stupidest thing you can do. Why is he tryain got rob Alberta?

It's the United bigots party, I shouldnlt be surprised. Am I late to the Charles Adler interveiw thread?

[ExtraSlow]

Advance polls start today. They are open 9am-8pm every day until Saturday. Reminder anyone may do advance voting at any advance poll.

In election day Tuesday April 16th you may ONLY vote at your assigned polling station.

[Misterman]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Thats exactly the point though. Back then we paid more across the board in taxes and had a balanced budget / surplus. Since then we've dropped taxes everywhere and now we have a deficit.

Dropping the corporate tax rate even further to 8% isn't going to create more revenue.

Those numbers do not even look correct. But either way, you're kind of forgetting that these tax rates under Klein were dropped by Conservatives to less than they show on the graph under the NDP, and we still had balanced budgets. NDP raised them, and massively over spent beyond the added revenue.

And depending on economic environment, decreasing corporate tax rate can most certainly increase revenue. Lower tax rate attracts more business, so even though the rate is lower, you can more than make up for it in volume.

[msommers]

Tax cuts, balanced budgets, debt free, who was in power, who wasn't...who cares. What was the price of oil and what % of our total revenue was from O&G royalties during that time? It's great to make a statement about X but what factors were really impacting our "success" or "failure" during that time?

The bickering is fun and an interesting contrast of opinions to read, but our province flourishes or shrivels depending on how O&G is doing.