Alberta 2019 Provincial Election

[Stuart]

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You shouldn't be allowed to vote you are so woefully misinformed over basic, non-politicized facts its insane.

And you shouldn't be allowed to vote based on your history of voting for the NDP. Please admit that other people are smarter and more informed than you.

[msommers]

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Denver

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That's where I would go.

Mountains an hour away = major hurdle overcome...definitely going to look into this more. Cheers.

[suntan]

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you blame the ndp for funding safe Injection sites as well as other drug programs?? Of all the things I dislike about the ndp this would not be one of them.

You complained about crime in another post. Guess what's fueling crime in general?? Drugs. Guess what would help this?? More programs for people to get help when needed.

Rehab is hard. Just let them get high.

Safe injection sites are an admission by gov't that they're too lazy to do anything else.

[A790]

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you blame the ndp for funding safe Injection sites as well as other drug programs?? Of all the things I dislike about the ndp this would not be one of them.

You complained about crime in another post. Guess what's fueling crime in general?? Drugs. Guess what would help this?? More programs for people to get help when needed.

Social programs are bad because reasons.

To be fair, HiTemp qualified his statement by commenting that there is no incentive from the program to get the participant clean. So, I think there's a difference of opinion over what qualifies as "help".

Many people do not understand how addiction forms or how quickly it can escalate. These people often don't know what chronic pain is or chronic illness it like, both of which are the main two reasons that drug addictions form.

When chronic pain became a part of my everyday life, it completely reversed my prior attitudes towards these programs (including safe injection sites, which I was "against" for most of my life). I don't think all social programs are bad, and I think most Canadians agree with me.

[R-Audi]

While I get the purpose of safe injection sites, it has turned the area around the Chumir into a total disaster as it needs way more policing and security. If I lived there I would be extremely pissed.. last spring driving around at lunch there were several people shooting up on the sidewalk, two crazies yelling at cars in the middle of the road and piles of stolen bikes in makeshift tents. Felt like Hastings in Vancouver. To think that we paid for this to happen is ridiculous.

[gwill]

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Social programs are bad because reasons.

To be fair, HiTemp qualified his statement by commenting that there is no incentive from the program to get the participant clean. So, I think there's a difference of opinion over what qualifies as "help".

Many people do not understand how addiction forms or how quickly it can escalate. These people often don't know what chronic pain is or chronic illness it like, both of which are the main two reasons that drug addictions form.

When chronic pain became a part of my everyday life, it completely reversed my prior attitudes towards these programs (including safe injection sites, which I was "against" for most of my life). I don't think all social programs are bad, and I think most Canadians agree with me.

To blame the ndp was laughable. Hes nuts if he thinks there are no supports for those who want help with those programs. Theres certainly concerns for any controversial program like a safe injection site but the facts are these people would be shooting up with or without a safe site.

A family member has had to take extensive training due to the heroin issue. On any given day they can walk by 5 to 10 needles on the ground during their work day. I know people want to live in an alternate universe where things like this don't happen but that's not reality.

The topic on how best to handle our drug epidemic can take up an entire thread on it's own but hitemp shouldnt be so narrow minded and blame one party for this issue.

[HiTempguy1]

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both of which are the main two reasons that drug addictions form.

Make up your mind, the lefties claim its mental health issues. Which is it? It can't be both

Oh, and no, these people aren't in chronic pain. Nice try though Addiction forms because you take the drugs. If you don't take the drugs, the addiction doesn't form. It's pretty simple. Yes, some people do indeed suffer from what you describe, but not THE MAJORITY of addicts. Give me a break

Also, way to change the topic since you have no path to defending the shit policies of the NDP or Alberta Party. It was just one of the many examples of wasted government money. Safe injection sites, for instance, have no noticeable improvement on recovery of addicts over the long term. Instead it concentrates crime, violence, and needles everywhere. Sorry, you wanna be a piece of crap, go be a piece of crap elsewhere, and I certainly don't care to pay for it. Should see what has happened with those programs in Red Deer and Lethbridge, absolute cluster fucks that have destroyed neighbourhoods.

Edit-
Your pain, your suffering, does not constitute any need for action on my part. No different than illegal refugees coming into a country. In both cases, we've given these people access to help and programs to deal with these issues, but its always the same, selfish assholes that somehow believe their issues trump others and demand we look after them, fueled by the guilt of people like A790. And I'm sick of it, as are a lot of Albertans.

[dirtsniffer]

I've seen first hand that perfectly normal people can develop debilitating addictions to opioids after initially being prescribed them after a surgery.

[gwill]

^^and you choose to blame the ndp for drug problems you dont like....

[dirtsniffer]

Ill assume that was not directed at me.

[Misterman]

Excuse my ignorance as I've never done Heroin. But I thought the entire reasoning behind safe injection sites was a public safety excuse, to keep needles off the play grounds and be properly disposed of by trained medical staff. Why is there needles all over the place around these injection sites?

Just to clarify, I do not support safe injection sites at all. And if what I'm hearing here has any truth to it, and these sites are being operated against protocol to allow these junkies to be leaving the site with needles in their hands. Then they should be shut down immediately as they are posing the exact risk they had claimed to fix.

- - - Updated - - -

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I've seen first hand that perfectly normal people can develop debilitating addictions to opioids after initially being prescribed them after a surgery.

These people are generally destined to be a fuck up of some kind. Opioids just happen to be the first thing they were introduced to.

[gwill]

needles are all over the inner city.... most people arent walking around in the ghetto to see them. Theres a lot more to the safe injection sites then just safety.

[Buster]

Bunny is disappoint.

[msommers]

The short story is all of this falls under the harm reduction protocol. People die less, recover more and save tax payers overall.

I do agree there needs to be an increase in police presence around Chumir now, or an avenue for the people using the site to go to their "home" and not stumble out from the site like a bar-crawl starting at noon.

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Excuse my ignorance as I've never done Heroin. But I thought the entire reasoning behind safe injection sites was a public safety excuse, to keep needles off the play grounds and be properly disposed of by trained medical staff. Why is there needles all over the place around these injection sites?

Just to clarify, I do not support safe injection sites at all. And if what I'm hearing here has any truth to it, and these sites are being operated against protocol to allow these junkies to be leaving the site with needles in their hands. Then they should be shut down immediately as they are posing the exact risk they had claimed to fix.

These people are generally destined to be a fuck up of some kind. Opioids just happen to be the first thing they were introduced to.

Bro you gots some reading to do.

[kertejud2]

The reality is that we pay for the problem in some way regardless:

You pay for constant enforcement to act as a deterrent, which doesn't solve the problem it just moves it somewhere else, and it costs money to do.

You pay for incarceration with the goal of rehabilitation: not cheap. Or incarceration without rehabilitation, which is also not cheap. These plans also only work if you also pay for the increased enforcement which of course adds to the cost.

You can just not do anything which doesn't cost anything directly, but the unchecked crime and overdoses and other problems definitely have a cost associated with them. Also it doesn't actually fix the problem, it just ignores it hoping the only issue people have with the crime and social issues faced with drug use is tax dollars being spent on it.


This isn't a Calgary problem or an Alberta problem or a Canada problem. This shit is a problem worldwide and nobody has a perfect solution yet. But so far the better solutions are mitigating damage by reducing the zone of enforcement needed, reducing the need for expensive care resulting from overdoses, reducing harm via needle-sharing, not paying for expensive incarceration that won't actually fix the problem, etc. So I guess the question is: how do you actually come up with a no-cost solution to this crisis.

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While I get the purpose of safe injection sites, it has turned the area around the Chumir into a total disaster as it needs way more policing and security. If I lived there I would be extremely pissed.. last spring driving around at lunch there were several people shooting up on the sidewalk, two crazies yelling at cars in the middle of the road and piles of stolen bikes in makeshift tents. Felt like Hastings in Vancouver. To think that we paid for this to happen is ridiculous.

It wasn't that long ago Central Memorial Park wasn't a place people really went because of all the needles and addicts around (which came after people not wanting to go there because they didn't want people thinking they were gay, since it was a popular hook-up spot in the 70s and 80s). 1st St SW was also a blight and that carried over towards the Stampede Grounds (which is an ongoing process to fix). The revitilization of 1st Street, more people moving to the Beltline, and the park renovation started making it a more public place again, but the junkies never really left that part of town. The Chumir safe injection site didn't bring all these people to the area, they put the safe injection site at the Chumir because that's where the people who needed it are. It's just now they're more concentrated around the one spot instead of spread out among all the alleys and streets, and there's actually people around to be bothered by it (which wasn't so much the case in the 90s and 00s). Putting safe injection sites in the middle of nowhere might keep the neighbors happy, but what good can they if nobody will use them?

[HiTempguy1]

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The short story is all of this falls under the harm reduction protocol. People die less, recover more and save tax payers overall.

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Zero evidence of any of this. At most, people dying less may be true. Even the Vancouver sites have specifically said this. Lower costs? Negligible at best.

All lies, as is usual. You want help? Here you go, detox and rehab center in the middle of nowhere, submit to our rules. Dont like it? Go die in a gutter.

Over 70% of addicts never get clean, and the use of social services has little to do with it.

If you are getting addicted to pain pills after surgery, maybe want to not pop so many, talk with your doctor, get things sorted.

I never said it doesn't or can't happen. But its your responsibility to take care of you, not mine. There are systems in place to help. And lots of people are lost causes, who would suck our resources dry if they could.

[kertejud2]

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Zero evidence of any of this. At most, people dying less may be true. Even the Vancouver sites have specifically said this. Lower costs? Negligible at best.

All lies, as is usual.

Negligible at best? Lies? Let's see what they have to say about the Vancouver site:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...3.2010.02977.x

Results  If Insite were closed, the annual number of incident HIV infections among Vancouver IDU would be expected to increase from 179.3 to 262.8. These 83.5 preventable infections are associated with $17.6 million (Canadian) in life‐time HIV‐related medical care costs, greatly exceeding Insite's operating costs, which are approximately $3 million per year.

Conclusions  Insite's safe injection facility and syringe exchange program substantially reduce the incidence of HIV infection within Vancouver's IDU community. The associated savings in averted HIV‐related medical care costs are more than sufficient to offset Insite's operating costs.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...55395909000607

Through the use of conservative estimates, Vancouver's SIF, Insite, on average, prevents 35 new cases of HIV and almost 3 deaths each year. This provides a societal benefit in excess of $6 million per year after the programme costs are taken into account, translating into an average benefit-cost ratio of 5.12:1

[gwill]

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Zero evidence of any of this. At most, people dying less may be true. Even the Vancouver sites have specifically said this. Lower costs? Negligible at best.
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You forgot to blame the ndp in this rant. Thanks a lot notley!!!

[msommers]

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Zero evidence of any of this. At most, people dying less may be true. Even the Vancouver sites have specifically said this. Lower costs? Negligible at best.

All lies, as is usual.

WHY do I bother click Show Quote with you bro. So angry and everyone sucks but you still, hey? Unfortunate.

Some totally biased liberal propoganda research coming from the College of Family Physicians of Canada (2017) coming at ya:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5685449/

Bottom line
Best evidence from cohort and modeling studies suggests that SISs are associated with lower overdose mortality (88 fewer overdose deaths per 100 000 person-years [PYs]), 67% fewer ambulance calls for treating overdoses, and a decrease in HIV infections. Effects on hospitalizations are unknown.

[phreezee]

Save it for October! Arguing over something with a 99% probability outcome seems futile.
Go vote in the advance poll and ignore the noise.