The Economy Is Pooped: How Do We Help

[13TTFX4]

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If your business relies on your customers wanting to support you because you are local, then your business model is not viable. That's just charity.
@tirebob is a good example of the opposite of that. I go to Bob because I trust his knowledge on the subject, so I don't have to spend any time/resources thinking about it. I can just trust his recommendation, and I know the price will be fair or better than fair. Bob knows he isn't selling tires, he's selling service.

People think Amazon is killing things because they sell so cheap - I think that's incorrect. I think they sell things because of their service.

I agree with this 100% My hobbies include various recreational vehicles where the wrong part or subpar can mean a sled staying in the backcountry or a wasted trip. with our seasons being short I will pay for knowledge and quick service a good example is specialty motorsports in spruce grove while I can buy most of their products online or even do some of the work myself they always jump to help and make quick turn arounds possible so we don't miss trips. In return I recommend them to any of my friends or anyone I talk to that may need work.

[riander5]

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Bringing an old thread back, but I figured my question fit in:
Another even more straightforward example; wanted some floor pamps to brighten up the living room. Could have bought off of Amazon for cheapeat price, delivered via prime.

Instead, ordered through Home Depot to at least keep some of the money local. Now the lamps still haven't arrived for in store pickup days later.

Wait.. you think ordering from Home Depot is keeping money more local than amazon?

[zechs]

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Wait.. you think ordering from Home Depot is keeping money more local than amazon?

Maybe a poor choice, I was thinking more like Canadian Tire. But yes, I would probably argue that. Home Depot has multiple retail locations across Alberta, whereas Amazon has two depots? But I could be swayed to believe otherwise.

As for everyone else, I never made the argument that Amazon was vastly cheaper. But typically, Amazon is close to the lowest price and doesn't require me to go to the store to get that price (which I don't know in advance). So absolutely, service plays a part, but if Amazon was 30% more, I wouldn't buy from them.

But I agree it is just charity, hence my point that supporting local is hard when companies actively make me not want to support local. I don't think I said otherwise.

[The_Rural_Juror]

I support local. Like in my own wallet.
#rightwinglyfe

[tirebob]

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Maybe a poor choice, I was thinking more like Canadian Tire. But yes, I would probably argue that. Home Depot has multiple retail locations across Alberta, whereas Amazon has two depots? But I could be swayed to believe otherwise.

As for everyone else, I never made the argument that Amazon was vastly cheaper. But typically, Amazon is close to the lowest price and doesn't require me to go to the store to get that price (which I don't know in advance). So absolutely, service plays a part, but if Amazon was 30% more, I wouldn't buy from them.

But I agree it is just charity, hence my point that supporting local is hard when companies actively make me not want to support local. I don't think I said otherwise.

There is always a point where price crosses a line it isn't even remotely justifiable, but I would argue that it isn't "purely" charity, but is also somewhat pragmatic in that (using my business as an example) I as a small business owner in the city of Calgary spend my money locally on other local businesses and pay my local city business taxes that go into maintaining infrastructure (as well as the purple people eaters pet projects sadly) where as that money you send out of city/province/country does nothing (or vary little) to benefit the local economy and community keeping you and your neighbours in double meat subs.

[e31]

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There's really only 2 ways a store can compete - price and service. Many local places in Calgary don't seem to understand either, so people turn to online stores. I always try to support local but some places make it REALLY hard...

Actually 3 ways to compete: Price, Service, and Stock. I find many Calgary businesses are dreadful for having items in stock. If it must be special ordered, you lost a sale; just buy it online and save the hassle of dealing with a local pickup.

[ThePenIsMightier]

@tirebob made an excellent point about inventory that I never considered, but should have. It's more about interruptions in production than stores/shops making poor decisions.

I'm working on bid for a project where the customer is asking us to have a plan-b for $millions in equipment to be sourced in 'murica because they're scared of items sourced from Europe or Asia during CoVid-Part2,3,4.

Until they see the price...

[jutes]

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Actually 3 ways to compete: Price, Service, and Stock. I find many Calgary businesses are dreadful for having items in stock. If it must be special ordered, you lost a sale; just buy it online and save the hassle of dealing with a local pickup.

When it comes to tires as in the recent discussion, I doubt anyone has the retail space to stock anything of significance. Unless you don't care about brand and just want a tire size that's pretty universal then you are stuck ordering. That usually isn't a big deal since they can get orders in at the next available appointment anyway. For my recent tire purchase, I ordered through Quattro and had it shipped to an "authorized installer". If you play around with shipping options its actually way cheaper to ship it that way, rather than to your door. When I set-up the appointment, the shop didn't even know of Quattro and that they were affiliated. I'm not sure how much money local shops make off tire sales, but I'm willing to bet the majority of the profit is in labor. In the end, for me anyway, I shop around for the cheapest tire price after I pick my options, then I choose a local installer that won't completely destroy my wheels.

[Xtrema]

Bob has never steer me wrong. Sometimes he doesn't have what I want but I always go to him first. Not going argue over a few bucks and love the new winter set on my GLC43 so far.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Actually 3 ways to compete: Price, Service, and Stock. I find many Calgary businesses are dreadful for having items in stock. If it must be special ordered, you lost a sale; just buy it online and save the hassle of dealing with a local pickup.

Fair point. I guess you could lump that in with service, but I agree it's a factor. Some places are brutal for stock, which is not usually an issue online. More and more things do seem to be special order these days, and that usually comes with a "no returns" caveat, again which you don't usually see online.

[Maxx Mazda]

Stock is the #1 thing for me. Whatever it is. I will gladly pay even 30% more if it means I can have it NOW vs waiting a week or so online. Time is money.

[rage2]

Does any retail tires shop (other than Costco) even stock tires? I thought it's the local distributors jobs to stock tires ready for same day delivery. Everyone has the same stock basically because of it.

[ThePenIsMightier]

Worth mentioning that Costco has never once had the tires I needed in stock. And, their deliveries are well over one week.

[zechs]

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Does any retail tires shop (other than Costco) even stock tires? I thought it's the local distributors jobs to stock tires ready for same day delivery. Everyone has the same stock basically because of it.

Most certainly they do. I've been in quite a few of them. Canadian Tire has large warehouse racking full of tires, the spot seems to be above the parts racking behind the parts desk as its basically dead space so a second level is built and tires are stocked there. Kal-Tire, some facilities have their tires on racking in the showroom, and I'm not talking one or two, but hundreds.

Usually major name brands have distribution warehouses and then their authorized retailers that they deal with. So some places operate with little to no stock. I wouldn't say there is one way to operate a tire shop.

Then you have places that almost strictly deal with chinese tires, and they bring in their seacan or two or five from China and what they have onhand is what they have on hand. This is all just based on my first hand experience. Maybe tirebob has a better idea? But I suppose he may only be familiar with his setup.

As for paying a 30% premium for right now, that is nuts to me. Unless it was a major safety issue (as in, death or serious injury was imminent without the item), I can not possibly fathom shelling out an extra 30% because of being impatient. But I do understand that for some people, that is a worthwhile price for them.

[zechs]

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but I would argue that it isn't "purely" charity

Charity in the sense of paying 30%+ just to shop local. I think up to +10% variance is reasonable given the other benefits obtained by strictly buying in town. I wonder if it makes everyone in a given area better off by paying that extra 10% but keeping the money local? Versus a shop or individual saving 20% to 30% outsourcing but the earnings completely leaving the jurisdiction.

[tirebob]

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Charity in the sense of paying 30%+ just to shop local. I think up to +10% variance is reasonable given the other benefits obtained by strictly buying in town. I wonder if it makes everyone in a given area better off by paying that extra 10% but keeping the money local? Versus a shop or individual saving 20% to 30% outsourcing but the earnings completely leaving the jurisdiction.

There is a give and take, of course. If a person is only looking at one time purchase of a product, 30% is a lot, but for many people other involved costs and/or security can come into it.

For example, things like labour costs are often more when supplying your own new tires versus someone buying tires, and I am no exception. I am not a complete rapist like some shops can be in that scenario, but I do charge a little more (Usually $10 a tire for most everyday stuff but more for time consuming jobs like oversized off-road tires etc). Labour for the most part is break even if you calculate total overall costs of keeping a good staff, doors open, premium level equipment et all, so I won't do it for break even and there has to be a few extra bucks in it for me from the sale of the goods.

People also value the little extras I do for clients like helping them with free flat repairs, rotations, etc, and you have to understand that for a shop like me that does not do mechanical, it isn't a lost leader to make me more money on finding jobs.

Relationships matter too. I can't tell you how many customers I regularly help outside of the sale, even with things that may seem silly to some, but to the person you are helping it is invaluable, like helping someones grandparents out in Toronto get the right information even though they will never buy from you just because your client trusts you, or you smashed a curb and wrecked a rim or tire I have sold you, so rather than profit from a shitty situation and even though it has nothing to do with being a warranty issue, I try get them a replacement for dead cost and not charge any labour to change it all. Or knowing they had something shitty happen in their lives and are having a tough go of it but they need tires and I just want to try and help things be a bit better and give them a free set of decent used ones to keep them going without taking any money.

The list goes on and on and by no means am I trying to make this about "look at me I am such a good guy blah blah" bullshit. I am more just trying to show that there is value outside of "just a tire" when it comes to supporting local business and keep money in your community. Human connections matter, and we are losing that all in a race to the bottom. Once we all get there, I believe there will be a lot of regrets when there is no longer anyone who gives a shit and quality of everything sucks but you have nowhere to turn because it is your only option now. I am not saying that is a reason to be blatantly ripped off, but thinking big picture, it warrants careful consideration.

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Most certainly they do. I've been in quite a few of them. Canadian Tire has large warehouse racking full of tires, the spot seems to be above the parts racking behind the parts desk as its basically dead space so a second level is built and tires are stocked there. Kal-Tire, some facilities have their tires on racking in the showroom, and I'm not talking one or two, but hundreds.

Usually major name brands have distribution warehouses and then their authorized retailers that they deal with. So some places operate with little to no stock. I wouldn't say there is one way to operate a tire shop.

Then you have places that almost strictly deal with chinese tires, and they bring in their seacan or two or five from China and what they have onhand is what they have on hand. This is all just based on my first hand experience. Maybe tirebob has a better idea? But I suppose he may only be familiar with his setup.

As for paying a 30% premium for right now, that is nuts to me. Unless it was a major safety issue (as in, death or serious injury was imminent without the item), I can not possibly fathom shelling out an extra 30% because of being impatient. But I do understand that for some people, that is a worthwhile price for them.

Most small shops don't inventory massive amounts because it just doesn't make sense to tie up large amounts of operating capital when you get three deliveries a day from most major distribution warehouses, and those warehouses in our particular case, are almost all in Calgary as they supply all of southern Alberta. We do take advantage of sales etc and will stock up on the stuff you move hand over fist, but it isn't like the old days when there were six size sku's that covered 95% of the vehicles. Now you have have 30, 40 even 50 or more size sku's just on a single tire model, and it is absolutely impossible to keep it all in the building and survive. Even the huge companies are trying to keep less and less inventory, now more than ever.

You also have to place your stocking orders way ahead of time (sometimes as much as 4 to 6 months in advance) and guess what is going to be the hot mover that year, and if you guessed wrong you get stuck with 10's or even 100's of thousands of dollars of inventory that you need to keep for another year before the chance to sell it again comes up, and it isn't like you are talking huge margins of savings difference. Often the difference between ordering four tires at a time or ordering two hundred tires at a time is only 2 or 3 percent in dollars, so why take the risk? When you are stupidly luck to be making only a 15% to 20% margin on major goods at the best of times, it just isn't worth it.

[sabad66]

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There is a give and take, of course. If a person is only looking at one time purchase of a product, 30% is a lot, but for many people other involved costs and/or security can come into it.

For example, things like labour costs are often more when supplying your own new tires versus someone buying tires, and I am no exception. I am not a complete rapist like some shops can be in that scenario, but I do charge a little more (Usually $10 a tire for most everyday stuff but more for time consuming jobs like oversized off-road tires etc). Labour for the most part is break even if you calculate total overall costs of keeping a good staff, doors open, premium level equipment et all, so I won't do it for break even and there has to be a few extra bucks in it for me from the sale of the goods.

People also value the little extras I do for clients like helping them with free flat repairs, rotations, etc, and you have to understand that for a shop like me that does not do mechanical, it isn't a lost leader to make me more money on finding jobs.

Relationships matter too. I can't tell you how many customers I regularly help outside of the sale, even with things that may seem silly to some, but to the person you are helping it is invaluable, like helping someones grandparents out in Toronto get the right information even though they will never buy from you just because your client trusts you, or you smashed a curb and wrecked a rim or tire I have sold you, so rather than profit from a shitty situation and even though it has nothing to do with being a warranty issue, I try get them a replacement for dead cost and not charge any labour to change it all. Or knowing they had something shitty happen in their lives and are having a tough go of it but they need tires and I just want to try and help things be a bit better and give them a free set of decent used ones to keep them going without taking any money.

The list goes on and on and by no means am I trying to make this about "look at me I am such a good guy blah blah" bullshit. I am more just trying to show that there is value outside of "just a tire" when it comes to supporting local business and keep money in your community. Human connections matter, and we are losing that all in a race to the bottom. Once we all get there, I believe there will be a lot of regrets when there is no longer anyone who gives a shit and quality of everything sucks but you have nowhere to turn because it is your only option now. I am not saying that is a reason to be blatantly ripped off, but thinking big picture, it warrants careful consideration.

Off topic slightly but I didn't know you did free flat repairs until this post lol. Glad i went with you instead of Costco this time around

[Disoblige]

Ever since... Speedtech (lol), I always went with UrbanX for tire needs.

[ExtraSlow]

Hey, local group of small businesses has launched their own delivery service. Not as handy as Skip etc, but more money stays in the businesses pockets, which is a pretty good thing.
https://bestofcalgaryfoods.com/

[Buster]

you can get glamorgan cheese buns delivered?

oh fuck I'm in trouble.