Vaccinating your kids for Covid19 - opinion poll

[ExtraSlow]

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Kids almost always tend to come out of Covid just fine, but the real issue is our need as a society to limit spread. If the anti-vax adults aren't going to do their part to reduce cases, I guess my 9 year old will have to do the mature thing for them.

Kids risk of severe outcome from Covid is low, but it's not zero, and it should be dramatically lower for a vaccinated kid.

[rage2]

For those voting Immediately sign up my kids you can register them in the ahs vaccination system now so you can skip that shit show on day 1.

[tirebob]

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Kids risk of severe outcome from Covid is low, but it's not zero, and it should be dramatically lower for a vaccinated kid.

Ahhhh, but how low versus the possibility of an issue from the vaccine itself. Speaking from experience here... Again, all a numbers game and for my age group the covid issues outweigh the vaccine issues for sure, but in the younger kids age group, is it the same?

Edit - Full disclosure this question has zero effect on me. Both my kids are adults and double vaxxed.

[zechs]

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should be

The science and anti-anecdotal crowd at its finest.

But regardless, vaccination doesn't lower spread. We have high vaccination rates and tons of spread, as a wise Beyonder informed me, correlation is correlation, and that is what the data shows.

[ExtraSlow]

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Ahhhh, but how low versus the possibility of an issue from the vaccine itself. Speaking from experience here... Again, all a numbers game and for my age group the covid issues outweigh the vaccine issues for sure, but in the younger kids age group, is it the same?

I don't know the numbers for that, and I know you had a bad time with your jabs.

[sabad66]

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Ahhhh, but how low versus the possibility of an issue from the vaccine itself. Speaking from experience here... Again, all a numbers game and for my age group the covid issues outweigh the vaccine issues for sure, but in the younger kids age group, is it the same?

Edit - Full disclosure this question has zero effect on me. Both my kids are adults and double vaxxed.

Here’s a study specific to myocarditis and people under 20:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....23.21260998v1

Conclusion:
Myocarditis (or pericarditis or myopericarditis) from primary COVID19 infection occurred at a rate as high as 450 per million in young males. Young males infected with the virus are up 6 times more likely to develop myocarditis as those who have received the vaccine.

[tirebob]

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Here’s a study specific to myocarditis and people under 20:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....23.21260998v1

Conclusion:
Myocarditis (or pericarditis or myopericarditis) from primary COVID19 infection occurred at a rate as high as 450 per million in young males. Young males infected with the virus are up 6 times more likely to develop myocarditis as those who have received the vaccine.

I was referring more to the little kids aspect of course... They can't have studied the 5 to 12 yet overly I would think but I may be wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

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I don't know the numbers for that, and I know you had a bad time with your jabs.

By no means am I saying don't do it... I think I have made it pretty clear that I am an oddity, but I definitely do think a bit differently than many because of my issues, and the 5 to 12 range is tough because if you make the decision one way or the other on their behalf and something happens to them, I would hate to feel that! When you make it for yourself it is one thing, but when you are deciding it for another, the guilt would be on an entirely different scale, so obviously having all the info and choosing based on those probabilities is extremely important.

[ExtraSlow]

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By no means am I saying don't do it... I think I have made it pretty clear that I am an oddity, but I definitely do think a bit differently than many because of my issues, and the 5 to 12 range is tough because if you make the decision one way or the other on their behalf and something happens to them, I would hate to feel that! When you make it for yourself it is one thing, but when you are deciding it for another, the guilt would be on an entirely different scale, so obviously having all the info and choosing based on those probabilities is extremely important.

For sure, people have a different perception of risks and alternatives when it comes to children. Feelings and emotion plays a huge part in parents behaviours for things like this.
But in the end, deciding not to give a child a vaccination is an active choice that increases their overall risk of serious outcomes. I don't think I could make a choice to increase my kids risk like that.

[tirebob]

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For sure, people have a different perception of risks and alternatives when it comes to children. Feelings and emotion plays a huge part in parents behaviours for things like this.
But in the end, deciding not to give a child a vaccination is an active choice that increases their overall risk of serious outcomes. I don't think I could make a choice to increase my kids risk like that.

I hear you, but since we don't know the numbers (or maybe we do... I just haven't found them yet), what if the the actual probabilities were 50/50 that something serious could happen either way you went? Or was even slightly slanted one way or the other? Would you always error to the side of fearing the sickness more than the cure even if the cure was numerically more possible even by the tiniest margin? Vegas was built on 2% right?

Of course this is 100% a theoretical conversation versus reality at this point, but my mind goes kind of weird ways when I go deep lol

[ExtraSlow]

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Vegas was built on 2% right?

True enough, a couple percentage points can be a big deal over long timeframes. And humans are bad at any intuitive understanding of statistics, even when the statistics are solidly known. Dealing with uncertainty about the statistics puts us into a tailspin, which we see all over the damned place these days.

[tirebob]

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True enough, a couple percentage points can be a big deal over long timeframes. And humans are bad at any intuitive understanding of statistics, even when the statistics are solidly known. Dealing with uncertainty about the statistics puts us into a tailspin, which we see all over the damned place these days.

Bingo... probabilities always play out in the end. The question is how far down the line does it take for them to be accurate? It can be immediately or infinitely wrong until it is actually right. I shall stop... It feels like I am getting into a conversation requiring micro-dosing.

[sabad66]

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I was referring more to the little kids aspect of course... They can't have studied the 5 to 12 yet overly I would think but I may be wrong.

Ahh gotcha. Phase 1/2/3 was only 4500 kids from ages 5-12 for Pfizer so yeah a pretty small sample size compared to the older groups who they have data for 6+ Months and many millions of people.
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-re...us-fda-pivotal

[Misterman]

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But in the end, deciding not to give a child a vaccination is an active choice that increases their overall risk of serious outcomes.

This is a very ignorant assumption you're making. Kids are virtually unaffected by covid based on what we know at this time. The effects of this vaccine on them are completely unknown at this time. If you want to correlate what we know about the vaccine in adults, it's only benefit is to decrease serious outcomes, however it does come with some risks. The best you could deduce from what we currently know, is that the vaccine has no benefits for children and only risks, as children are not prone to serious outcomes. Obviously this is a personal parenting choice if you feel the vaccine risks are worth trying to circumvent a serious outcome for your child if they happen to be in one of those incredibly rare positions. But lets not pretend it would be a decision made based on some deeper understanding of the science and statistics. You're using emotion to form your opinion as much or more as everyone else.

[SKR]

I'm waiting for SportEL's take on it before I make any decisions.

Maybe eventually there'll be so many covid threads he'll get lost like a house of mirrors and just be stuck here forever.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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I'm waiting for SportEL's take on it before I make any decisions.

Maybe eventually there'll be so many covid threads he'll get lost like a house of mirrors and just be stuck here forever.

Sure. Whatever's peer reviewed, these days.
Hey look! I spotted JabSporTwerkOnJabEL!

[R-Audi]

May be a stupid question... Does the volume of the vaccine change with adults vs 12-18 and 5-12? Cant imagine they give a 5yr old he exact same dose as my 220lb ass.

[Tik-Tok]

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May be a stupid question... Does the volume of the vaccine change with adults vs 12-18 and 5-12? Cant imagine they give a 5yr old he exact same dose as my 220lb ass.

Kids will get 1/3 the dose. That's what Pfizer is seeking approval for anyways.

[Buster]

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This is a very ignorant assumption you're making. Kids are virtually unaffected by covid based on what we know at this time. The effects of this vaccine on them are completely unknown at this time. If you want to correlate what we know about the vaccine in adults, it's only benefit is to decrease serious outcomes, however it does come with some risks. The best you could deduce from what we currently know, is that the vaccine has no benefits for children and only risks, as children are not prone to serious outcomes. Obviously this is a personal parenting choice if you feel the vaccine risks are worth trying to circumvent a serious outcome for your child if they happen to be in one of those incredibly rare positions. But lets not pretend it would be a decision made based on some deeper understanding of the science and statistics. You're using emotion to form your opinion as much or more as everyone else.

wrong.

And I don't mean wrong-ish. I mean wrong as in the traditional polar opposite of right.

[Kloubek]

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The science and anti-anecdotal crowd at its finest.

But regardless, vaccination doesn't lower spread.

Legit government or scientific source please.

As for TireBob's assertion that perhaps the risks of the vaccine for kids could outweigh or equal issues that they'd get with Covid, I think it's a valid question to be asked. Not because I believe the vaccine is likely to cause any serious issues, but more because the kids are well protected from serious effects by nature. To me, it's 99.9% about whether subjecting them to any kind of risk is worth it to in favour of that spread reduction which Zechs doesn't think actually exists...

[ThePenIsMightier]

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wrong.

And I don't mean wrong-ish. I mean wrong as in the traditional polar opposite of right.

Ok, so what should the main motivator be to vaccinate your child?

A. Reducing the chance of serious outcomes for your child.

B. Reducing the chance of infection and any of the unknown longer term health issues for your child from CoVid?

C. Reducing the chance of infection and further spread of the virus to the rest of society.

D. Being allowed to travel if/when they also require eligible children to be vaccinated for travel to _____.