Alberta 2019 Provincial Election

[Buster]

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Are you trying to suggest that Alberta is self sufficient and doesn’t need goods from anywhere else?

I'll type this out in a form that's simpler for your to understand. (honestly, this exchange is making me feel dumber by association. thanks for nothing).

SOME trucks and trains come to Alberta and stop to give us delicious treats, and other things we might want and need.

SOME trucks and trains just go straight through alberta to and from BC and RoC for the purposes of trade.

(I'm pantomiming little trucks and trains on my desk right now, with some stopping and some going further.)

Either way, your point is one of the dumbest things I've heard in ages.

[kertejud2]

So you want to stop the trucks and trains going through Alberta to the RoC. The RoC stops trucks and trains from leaving Alberta to sell goods, closes rail bringing goods into Alberta. Leverage balanced out.

Where do you get the additional leverage for the pipeline?

[Brent.ff]

.... Can the mods just split these two into their own thread so the rest of us can move on? Separation isn't part of any platform..why are we talking about it

[Buster]

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.... Can the mods just split these two into their own thread so the rest of us can move on? Separation isn't part of any platform..why are we talking about it

Internecine trade wars are absolutely part of the election platform.

[ExtraSlow]

Cbc poll tracker finally updated. Has been a shift, but if you can look past the alarmist headlines of the popular vote (which is irrelevant) the seat count projection hasn't changed nearly as much.

[Buster]

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So you want to stop the trucks and trains going through Alberta to the RoC. The RoC stops trucks and trains from leaving Alberta to sell goods, closes rail bringing goods into Alberta. Leverage balanced out.

Where do you get the additional leverage for the pipeline?

I dont want to do anything of the sort. Trade wars suck. But the restriction of the pipelines through BC (and Montreal for that matter) is the opening salvo in the trade war. The only thing worse than a trade war is losing a one-sided trade war. Credible threats to interprovincial (BC/RoC) trade are very good leverage for Alberta. The asymmetric damage caused by the current system creates an upside for Alberta in this situation. What upside does BC / RoC really attain from restricting pipeline development. Not much. In fact, it hurts them economically to do so.

[killramos]

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.... Can the mods just split these two into their own thread so the rest of us can move on? Separation isn't part of any platform..why are we talking about it

Shall we introduce you to the Alberta Independence Party?

I see more signs for them than I do ucp

[HiTempguy1]

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Are you trying to suggest that Alberta is self sufficient and doesn’t need goods from anywhere else?

Give us an example, in your infinite wisdom, that can't be replaced with product from USA at about the same cost? I'll wait.

[kertejud2]

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I dont want to do anything of the sort. Trade wars suck. But the restriction of the pipelines through BC (and Montreal for that matter) is the opening salvo in the trade war. The only thing worse than a trade war is losing a one-sided trade war. Credible threats to interprovincial (BC/RoC) trade are very good leverage for Alberta. The asymmetric damage caused by the current system creates an upside for Alberta in this situation. What upside does BC / RoC really attain from restricting pipeline development. Not much. In fact, it hurts them economically to do so.

You still don't seem to be able to grasp that BC and the RoC can match whatever threat to interprovincial trade Alberta makes by doing the exact same thing, they're 'matching salvos'. There isn't leverage to be gained from this because Alberta needs the pipeline built more than BC needs it built and BC doesn't want to build a pipeline through Alberta.

[kertejud2]

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Give us an example, in your infinite wisdom, that can't be replaced with product from USA at about the same cost? I'll wait.

You overestimate how much freight we can get direct from the U.S.

[suntan]

kertejud2 is a prime example of why you should never bequeath your kids money.

[Misterman]

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If you build a railroad or a highway for the transport of goods, the access is itself is inherently reciprocal. Trucks and trains can bring Alberta goods out, outside goods in, benefits work both ways. The pipelines don’t act in that way. They benefit one end significantly more than the other, and don’t have the same access for both parties.

Alberta benefits from the roads and highways in and out of the province to move its own goods already, as does BC and the RoC. Any restriction to access by one side is just matched by the other, no gains to be made, therefore no leverage. So when trying to build a new pipeline, where does the leverage come from?

But these are just boring old semantics, I’d hate to bog you down with such irrelevant detail.

How is a pipeline not reciprocally beneficial to Canada when every barrel of oil that travels through it is federally taxed?

[Buster]

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You still don't seem to be able to grasp that BC and the RoC can match whatever threat to interprovincial trade Alberta makes by doing the exact same thing, they're 'matching salvos'. There isn't leverage to be gained from this because Alberta needs the pipeline built more than BC needs it built and BC doesn't want to build a pipeline through Alberta.

How much of BC's intra-RoC trade crosses through Alberta, do you think?

Alberta can (should it need to, which would suck) be a gatekeeper for a TON of trade in which it is not a direct participant. Alberta has chosen not to be a gatekeeper in this way. BC has chosen to be a gatekeeper for pipelines and oil exports.

[kertejud2]

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How is a pipeline not reciprocally beneficial to Canada when every barrel of oil that travels through it is federally taxed?

What does that matter to BC?

Also, 'They benefit one end significantly more than the other, and don’t have the same access for both parties.'

BC has leverage on Alberta because Alberta needs the pipeline more. It's that simple.

[tonytiger55]

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You overestimate how much freight we can get direct from the U.S.

A lot of our food comes from California.

[gwill]

4 days ago a poll was released showing ndp gaining massive ground in Calgary and all of Alberta. Basically showed a neck and neck tie. Now a new poll shows the ucp with a commanding lead in most of the province.

Such drastic differences on the polls that were being released days apart.

Anyone else see the ndp flyers that are using blue for the ad instead of ndp orange?? Seems a bit desperate to try and trick people that way.

[HiTempguy1]

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You overestimate how much freight we can get direct from the U.S.

Kert - You all know nothing and are a bunch of liars! We need Canada

Everyone else - Here are numbers, facts, and figures presented as simply as possible to show otherwise

Kert - I'm just going to pick a pedantic point that is not worth anyone's time to discuss

Oh so typical Kert.

[Buster]

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4 days ago a poll was released showing ndp gaining massive ground in Calgary and all of Alberta. Basically showed a neck and neck tie. Now a new poll shows the ucp with a commanding lead in most of the province.

Such drastic differences on the polls that were being released days apart.

Polls are one of the primary tools that both sides use to motivate their voting base. I think the Edmonton Journal was one of the worst. In federal elections they would always put out a poll with a week left showing the Conservative party way ahead, in the hopes that Conservative voters wouldn't bother to go out and vote.

[kertejud2]

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How much of BC's intra-RoC trade crosses through Alberta, do you think?

Alberta can (should it need to, which would suck) be a gatekeeper for a TON of trade in which it is not a direct participant. Alberta has chosen not to be a gatekeeper in this way. BC has chosen to be a gatekeeper for pipelines and oil exports.

Alberta can't act as a gatekeeper in this way, there isn't the mechanism for it. Closing federal highways and railroads the province doesn't own?

If they separate (sorry, 'renegotiate Confederation') to get it, then all trade out of Alberta that needs to transit BC or the ROC also gets gatekeeped, not just pipelines, which would continue to have the same problems. So you're no better on pipelines and worse on general trade. That's some good negotiations.

[killramos]

Does Kert seriously think that if Alberta separated that Canada would get to keep the railways and highways?